VTL 2.5 PreAmp in the House!

2

Comments

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,369
    I can tell you with a 100% guarantee that the Rotel isn't on the same planet as the VTL.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,712
    Technically they're both currently located on planet Earth!
    Got Dayens?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,369
    Don't be a richard.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,712
    I'm honestly just curious. Personally I would love to hear both of them back to back with one or two tracks that I'm familiar with!
    Got Dayens?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,858
    edited September 23
    The Rotel won't hold a candle to the VTL despite the fact that the names rhyme. Not even close.

    The Mullard M8162 being the best ECC81 made? That's definitely debatable, but the Rotel vs. VTL isn't.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,733
    I'll agree also, not even close. As we all know, one upgrade begets another, and that pre will shine even more when it's friends improve also.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    Tad 803 bookies
    Polk 500 surrounds
    Polk s35 center
    SVS SB-2000
    Sonos

    Music-

    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k 1430 amp
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    ERA D5 bookies

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    heiney9 wrote: »
    The 84/85 on the Brimar's are NOT year but the test numbers. So they are probably just fine vintage tubes.

    Yep. Got it. Tube newbie lesson #1 :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    halo wrote: »
    My 2.5 had the full complement of NOS Mullard tubes in it and I never had anything else in there. I never felt the need to try anything else as the Mullard tubes sounded so good to me.

    Siemens are great tubes but you only have the 1?

    According to Andy @ VTS the Brimar tubes are "ok" but nothing special. JJ tubes are Russian IIRC.

    Of course, you should roll them through there and decide what you like the best.

    Amperex tubes are really well-liked (I have them in my Bottlehead phono pre and I had them in my Modwright modded Sony 9100ES).

    I also really like the Ei tubes from back in the day.

    Everybody has their favs and it may also have a lot to do with the synergy of how they work with the rest of your gear.

    Good luck & have some fun ;)

    Hi Vic. The Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7’s get a lot of praise out there. Is that what you’re running?
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Tube labels mean very little. The construction and the codes are what identify the tubes origin.

    I've seen Valvo tubes have up to 10 different brand labels, but the codes and construction are what tell the story.

    So don't get too hung up on a label.

    Understood. Lesson #2!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    F1nut wrote: »
    I can tell you with a 100% guarantee that the Rotel isn't on the same planet as the VTL.

    I can say that the Rotel was a nice step up from my beloved Pioneer SX-V500 used as a pre (bought new way back in the day). Initial impression of the VTL was wow this is a giant leap forward!

    Just like the move from the Carver TFM35x to the CJ amp. Huge.

    All with help and tutelage from CP members!

    Thanks everyone for helping (enabling) me on my journey!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    tonyb wrote: »
    I'll agree also, not even close. As we all know, one upgrade begets another, and that pre will shine even more when it's friends improve also.

    Yep. It’s called the Rabbit Hole!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,712
    verb wrote: »
    I can say that the Rotel was a nice step up from my beloved Pioneer SX-V500 used as a pre (bought new way back in the day). Initial impression of the VTL was wow this is a giant leap forward!

    Just like the move from the Carver TFM35x to the CJ amp. Huge.

    Interesting. If the difference and improvement was that dramatic, I would be even more eager to try a few test tracks on each and hear that improvement for myself. Seems like it would be a real learning experience.
    Got Dayens?
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,733
    verb wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    All with help and tutelage from CP members!

    Thanks everyone for helping (enabling) me on my journey!

    ha...it is what we do best. Bunch of enablers around these parts. Rock on man, glad your digging it. Maybe now, you can put it into your own words, what many of us try to do for others.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    Tad 803 bookies
    Polk 500 surrounds
    Polk s35 center
    SVS SB-2000
    Sonos

    Music-

    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k 1430 amp
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    ERA D5 bookies

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
  • halohalo Posts: 4,363
    edited September 23
    verb wrote: »

    Hi Vic. The Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7’s get a lot of praise out there. Is that what you’re running?

    No. The Bottlehead Reduction phono pre uses 6DJ8/6922 tubes. I'm using the E88CC / 6922 "BUTT UGLY" Amperex white PQ type, NO LABEL OR OEM LABEL, gold pin tubes from Brent Jesse Recording. The matched pair I received is actually quite nice looking. The tubes have "GE" markings on them.

    35393891656_d0fb340663_b.jpg
    Post edited by halo on
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,522
    edited September 23
    The JJ's are good to have on hand incase you lose one of the good tubes, but, don't think I'm alone when I say I've never heard a JJ that I liked. The other tubes all have characteristics that just need to be experinced for you to decide whether it sounds best in your rig. That's the fun part.

    Congrats on the great new pre.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    Yep2 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    The 84/85 on the Brimar's are NOT year but the test numbers. So they are probably just fine vintage tubes.

    Yep. Got it. Tube newbie lesson #1 :smile:

    You hollar @ me?

    Never brother! I'ma learnin from ya!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    edited September 23
    Clipdat wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    I can say that the Rotel was a nice step up from my beloved Pioneer SX-V500 used as a pre (bought new way back in the day). Initial impression of the VTL was wow this is a giant leap forward!

    Just like the move from the Carver TFM35x to the CJ amp. Huge.

    Interesting. If the difference and improvement was that dramatic, I would be even more eager to try a few test tracks on each and hear that improvement for myself. Seems like it would be a real learning experience.

    The Carver to CJ was a big noticeable step. Being a novice and all. Just like the Rotel to VTL. Quite noticeable. As you go further, the differences are not as dramatic, I would expect.

    I listen to and respect the folks on this forum, as they have most likely "been there, done that". I don't consider myself an audiophile by any means, just an enthusiast, who loves this hobby!

    Heck, even Jesse had a VTL 2.5 back in the day!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,369
    kharp1 wrote: »
    The JJ's are good to have on hand incase you lose one of the good tubes, but, don't think I'm alone when I say I've never heard a JJ that I liked. The other tubes all have characteristics that just need to be experinced for you to decide whether it sounds best in your rig. That's the fun part.

    Congrats on the great new pre.

    I agree, JJ tubes do not sound good.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,208
    I did find that the Mullard CV4003 (12AU7) worked quite well with the 4024.

    If your gear Is already warm then it could put it on the cusp, but hard to say.
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,003
    verb wrote: »
    So today I had a chance to play with my new toy.

    One of my reference CDs - Evanescence "Lost whispers". Amy Lee has such an exquisite voice, among my faves, and the mix of symphonic rock and just plain ole rock n roll makes it a far reaching and enjoyable album.

    To get things started, I let the baby warm up for about 20 minutes.

    All I can say is wow! Amy Lee is rockin the house!

    Her vocals were extremely detailed, such like I had never heard before! I mean, I've played this CD on all my rigs, and this session by far was the most detailed. Ever. The highs were extended and unveiled, and never rolled off like the Rotel did at times. The VTL and CJ combination kept up with her vocals quite handily, with clear detail, they finished when she finished. I actually got goosebumps on a few of her songs (Even in Death, Breathe no More, etc.) of which I've played many, many times before!

    Subtleties, including percussion instruments, were more pronounced, and in some cases, actually discovered this time around!

    Musical details - wow! :smile:

    Soundstage was vastly improved. A lot of up/down and front/back imaging definition like never before. I felt as though I was in the middle of the soundstage, more so than ever, hearing notes that appeared to be right next to my ears.

    Bass was tight and controlled, never muddled. I did play Billy Idol's (Flesh for Fantasy) again today, and affirmed my reaction from last night's debut, despite the Jack & Diet Cokes! Plenty of slam for my tastes, and I love bass!

    I'm looking forward to getting more familiar with this baby, and playing around with tube rolling, ya know, rabbit hole stuff!

    Again, a special thanks to Doug @gmcman, and all others who have offered helpful advice on this next step in my journey! This baby is most definitely a keeper!

    Rock On! :smile:



    I love that song Flesh for Fantasy . Try Billy Idol's Don't Need a Gun. It will give you goosebumps.......
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
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    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    Love it!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,864
    I love seeing guys dip toes into the tube realm. Be careful as it gets addicting. Congrats bud!
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    Thank you sir! Lots of tubes out there! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • verbverb Posts: 3,305
    DSkip wrote: »
    I love seeing guys dip toes into the tube realm. Be careful as it gets addicting. Congrats bud!

    I'm outta control! :smile: Amperex Bugle Boys!
    6yne5383vq6p.jpg
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,208
    verb wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    I love seeing guys dip toes into the tube realm. Be careful as it gets addicting. Congrats bud!

    I'm outta control! :smile: Amperex Bugle Boys!
    6yne5383vq6p.jpg

    Nice!

    From what I've researched, those are likely one of, if not the best 12AU7 tubes for that preamp.

    Curious to what you think.
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