CSi A6 lacking punch it once had

2

Comments

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,729
    What John described as potentially happening could have happened to a $5,000 center channel speaker. The price of the speaker has nothing to do with it, unfortunately.
    Got Dayens?
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,174
    edited August 10
    tonyb wrote: »
    Try setting the center to full range and see if that snap is back. Sounds like your receiver is defaulting to certain surround parameters, there should be a way to just manually tune things without having to use the mic and without saving a pre disposed setting.
    +1. have you tried fullrange?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you pushed gently on the woofer cones to see if they move in and out freely?
    +1
    Any chance either of your L/R or theCC are connected backwards?

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    Maybe at the receiver the CC was plugged into a LF or RF output. Doubtful but just a thought. :|
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,145
    You replaced the crossover, right? When you reassembled the speaker, did you make sure to check the phase of the drivers? Open it up and make sure that + is going to + and - is going to -.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 4,479
    Maybe your AVR is running out of gas. I didn't read all of the post but your original post said you added a couple of speakers no?
    Parlor: ifi iDSD Micro*Yamaha RX-A2030*Parasound Halo P5*Parasound Halo A-31*Parasound 2250v2*Emotiva XPA-200 Gen1*LSiM707 Fronts*LSiM706c Center*LSiM702f/x Surrounds*Monitor70 Series II Rears*Monitor40 Series II Presence*SVS PB2000 Sub X2*OPPO BDP-103D*Sony PS3*Samsung-55" LED 1080p Smart 3D HDTV UN55H7150AFXZA*TEAC TN-300*Wireworld Solstice cables* Wireworld Stratus power cables*Blue Jeans Cable LC-1's IC's*BJC Silver-Plated IC's* Bens Silver IC's

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    Spare sortta: Usher N-6361* ifi iDsd nano*Marantz 1504* RX-A1040*Emotiva XPA-1L Gen2 X2*Emotiva XPA-3 Gen2*CSiA6 Center*Monitor40 Series II*SVS PB1000 Sub*Sony BDPS6500 Blu-ray player*POS 37" LCD*Douglas Connection Furez 12 AWG 2 Conductor*Blue Jeans Cable LC-1's IC's*Samsung BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray*Usher N-6361


    Self Control is over rated.
    Mr. Sharpe wrote: »
    Meh these were extra $70 as an open box item so it didn’t much to me either way:)

  • gp4jesus wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Try setting the center to full range and see if that snap is back. Sounds like your receiver is defaulting to certain surround parameters, there should be a way to just manually tune things without having to use the mic and without saving a pre disposed setting.
    +1. have you tried fullrange?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you pushed gently on the woofer cones to see if they move in and out freely?
    +1
    Any chance either of your L/R or theCC are connected backwards?

    I’ve tried Full Range. The issue is no matter where the crossover is set in the receiver, the speaker does not output the range that it used to when I first got it and what it is supposed to.

    All connections are where they should be. Left to left, right to right, center to center.
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    You replaced the crossover, right? When you reassembled the speaker, did you make sure to check the phase of the drivers? Open it up and make sure that + is going to + and - is going to -.

    The + and - connections are different size spade connectors. They could only be reconnected one way.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Maybe your AVR is running out of gas. I didn't read all of the post but your original post said you added a couple of speakers no?

    Didn’t add speakers. Only upgraded my surrounds to RTIA3’s. I highly doubt a TX-RZ810 (RZ series being Onkyo’s top end. Similar to a Pioneer Elite series) would choke with just 5 speakers when it supports up to 7.2 or 5.2.2.
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    edited August 15
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?

    Yes I have. Wasn’t really any different than when plugged into the center. Perhaps only very slightly louder in volume, but probably due to it being a different channel. Still lacked all punch.

    The woofers can push in. How easily? I don’t know. Since I don’t know where the reference of “easy” should be. But they do push in.
  • Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?

    Yes I have. Wasn’t really any different than when plugged into the center. Perhaps only very slightly louder in volume, but probably due to it being a different channel. Still lacked all punch.

    The woofers can push in. How easily? I don’t know. Since I don’t know where the reference of “easy” should be. But they do push in.

    I also want to point out that one woofer is clearly louder than the other.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,855
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?

    Yes I have. Wasn’t really any different than when plugged into the center. Perhaps only very slightly louder in volume, but probably due to it being a different channel. Still lacked all punch.

    The woofers can push in. How easily? I don’t know. Since I don’t know where the reference of “easy” should be. But they do push in.

    I also want to point out that one woofer is clearly louder than the other.

    That might be to negate comb filtering in the MTM design
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    edited August 15
    Wow, what a problem. Blown woofers with low volume usually don't move at all.

    Well thanks for responding to my idea thoughts.

    Have you hooked up a surround channel speaker to the center channel speaker wire from the receiver?

    Next, I would take each woofer out of that center and hook that woofer to another speaker wire at low to med. volume to see what happens with that. That would be the LAST thing to do to see IF THE WOOFERS are truly the problem.

    I've never heard of woofers blowing before tweeters but I'm only 61 now. I still have a lot to learn. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?

    Yes I have. Wasn’t really any different than when plugged into the center. Perhaps only very slightly louder in volume, but probably due to it being a different channel. Still lacked all punch.

    The woofers can push in. How easily? I don’t know. Since I don’t know where the reference of “easy” should be. But they do push in.

    I also want to point out that one woofer is clearly louder than the other.

    That might be to negate comb filtering in the MTM design

    So it’s by design that one driver is quieter than the other in the center channel?
  • Got my replacement drivers today and I’m still baffled. It’s maybe a hair better. The receiver wants the crossover set to 150-180 now on the CSiA6. Only a slight improvement over the 180-200, but still far off where it originally used to set it.

    Also now it’s putting my RTIA3’s (my surrounds) at 40 when they’ve always been at 100 before replacing the drivers in the CSiA6 today.

    The receiver is fairly new. I only bought it at the end of December. Is the receiver dying already and the culprit?
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,769
    Manually change those settings, why do you keep letting the receiver do it ?
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    Polk s35 center
    SVS SB-2000
    Sonos

    Music-

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    B&k 1430 amp
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    Manually change those settings, why do you keep letting the receiver do it ?

    That’s not the point. The point is where it did set things and where it sets things now. To me that’s a pretty clear indication something wrong is happening. As I’ve mentioned a couple times already, manually setting things lower doesn’t make things better and doesn’t make things sound as good as they once did or how the large CSiA6 is supposed to sound.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,145
    edited August 23
    Ok, I’m obviously not an expert, so bear with me. Is it possible that the tweeter is damaged, not to the point of failing, but possibly lowering the resistance? Then the receiver may try to save itself from damage by raising the crossover in order to have to not send it as much power. A lower resistance would also cause a higher efficiency as well, right? If so, then that could also be a contributing factor.
    Just my theoretical 0.02 cents.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,855
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Ok, I’m obviously not an expert, so bear with me. Is it possible that the tweeter is damaged, not to the point of failing, but possibly lowering the resistance? Then the receiver may try to save itself from damage by raising the crossover in order to have to not send it as much power. A lower resistance would also cause a higher efficiency as well, right? If so, then that could also be a contributing factor.
    Just my theoretical 0.02 cents.

    ummm NO! One the receiver is not that intelligent. Raising the crossover point in turn would send MORE to the tweeter section.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?
    Tony M wrote: »
    Have you hooked the center channel speaker up to a main left or right output speaker wire yet? That test right here will tell you FOR SURE if your woofers are blown in some way.

    Also, do the woofer speakers in your center channel push in easily? I asked this before, didn't I?

    Yes I have. Wasn’t really any different than when plugged into the center. Perhaps only very slightly louder in volume, but probably due to it being a different channel. Still lacked all punch.

    The woofers can push in. How easily? I don’t know. Since I don’t know where the reference of “easy” should be. But they do push in.

    I also want to point out that one woofer is clearly louder than the other.

    That might be to negate comb filtering in the MTM design

    So it’s by design that one driver is quieter than the other in the center channel?

    Absolutely yes!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    At this point I believe the problem is in your AVR. Can you borrow one to see if the speakers work properly with it?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,195
    edited August 23
    Agree. Time for a new AVR.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,145
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Ok, I’m obviously not an expert, so bear with me. Is it possible that the tweeter is damaged, not to the point of failing, but possibly lowering the resistance? Then the receiver may try to save itself from damage by raising the crossover in order to have to not send it as much power. A lower resistance would also cause a higher efficiency as well, right? If so, then that could also be a contributing factor.
    Just my theoretical 0.02 cents.

    ummm NO! One the receiver is not that intelligent. Raising the crossover point in turn would send MORE to the tweeter section.

    Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
    I didn’t think they were that smart, but I was theorizing. Trying to find something that could possibly be wrong.
    But could you explain how there would be more power going to the tweeter section just by raising the crossover point? That doesn’t make sense to me. Do you mean relative to the midwoofer section?
    I’m not trying to be difficult, I just would like to know.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,174
    edited August 23
    Sorry being a little late to the table
    I also want to point out that one woofer is clearly louder than the other.
    You're hearing that correctly
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    That might be to negate comb filtering in the MTM design
    That’s also correct
    So it’s by design that one driver is quieter than the other in the center channel?
    Yup. Details -
    HP to tweet: 2.2kHz
    LP to one mid: -6dB @ 1.5kHz
    LP to other mid: -6dB @ 3.8kHz - will sound louder than the other b/c your ears are most sensitive to 3.5Khz. Overlap to compensate for comb filtering
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,855
    Micah basically it's like turning your bass tone control all the way left and the treble all the way too the right. Less frequencies would be going to the mid-woofers.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,145
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Micah basically it's like turning your bass tone control all the way left and the treble all the way too the right. Less frequencies would be going to the mid-woofers.

    But shouldn’t the crossover setting for the speaker in the receiver simply cut out the frequencies below, say, 80hz? It doesn’t make sense to me that it would turn up the treble as well. I’m probably missing something.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    edited August 23
    All the advice we told you to do DIDN'T expose your receiver being at fault?

    That's hard to believe. I'm sorry!

    So you got a new crossover and two new woofers. All you need now is a tweeter and a box and you's have 2 centers.

    I feel that was such an obvious red flag that your receiver was sending only a signal above 180hz and it was TELLING / SHOWING you that.

    Now it seems the tweeter isn't working. You want Polk Audio to send you a tweeter now?

    That would be a complete rebuild.

    Maybe that speaker was completely blown by some act.

    I'm sorry but this has been the most unbelievable "I have a problem" thread I've seen on this forum.

    It's even worse than a @polkfarmboy(?) problem thread. He had problems all the time with something or other breaking if I remember right.

    I feel you could've and should've figured this problem ( which there is no problem with the center speaker at all.) out before Polk Audio sent that first replacement cross-over to you.

    We told you to check your receiver's settings.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,769
    tonyb wrote: »
    Manually change those settings, why do you keep letting the receiver do it ?

    That’s not the point. The point is where it did set things and where it sets things now. To me that’s a pretty clear indication something wrong is happening. As I’ve mentioned a couple times already, manually setting things lower doesn’t make things better and doesn’t make things sound as good as they once did or how the large CSiA6 is supposed to sound.

    If that's the case, then you just solved your own problem right there.

    As far as variations in the receiver setting things up....these automatic calibration programs are not gospel and they will vary some....depending. Much has to do with where the mic is set up at, ambient noises in the room at the time of calibration also. Like a furnace/a/c kicking on, maybe another appliance like washer/dryer/fridge. Footsteps, noise from pets, etc. The room has to be dead quiet, and you not in it either.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    Tad 803 bookies
    Polk 500 surrounds
    Polk s35 center
    SVS SB-2000
    Sonos

    Music-

    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k 1430 amp
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    ERA D5 bookies

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
  • Tony M wrote: »
    All the advice we told you to do DIDN'T expose your receiver being at fault?

    That's hard to believe. I'm sorry!

    So you got a new crossover and two new woofers. All you need now is a tweeter and a box and you's have 2 centers.

    I feel that was such an obvious red flag that your receiver was sending only a signal above 180hz and it was TELLING / SHOWING you that.

    Now it seems the tweeter isn't working. You want Polk Audio to send you a tweeter now?

    That would be a complete rebuild.

    Maybe that speaker was completely blown by some act.

    I'm sorry but this has been the most unbelievable "I have a problem" thread I've seen on this forum.

    It's even worse than a @polkfarmboy(?) problem thread. He had problems all the time with something or other breaking if I remember right.

    I feel you could've and should've figured this problem ( which there is no problem with the center speaker at all.) out before Polk Audio sent that first replacement cross-over to you.

    We told you to check your receiver's settings.

    I never once said anything about the tweeter not working or have I said I wanted a new tweeter. Perhaps read before accusing people of things.

    The receiver is NOT only sending signals above 180. If you bothered to read (seeing a trend with you here) I tested my old center speaker that is much, much smaller and much less capable and it would set at 120. Even with the new speakers replaced in the CSiA6 it sets it at 150. Below 180.

    Yes you and others told me to “check receiver settings” and I did so many of times before even posting.

    Your attitude is piss poor.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    I recently purchased a pair of RTIA3’s to finish off my set. When I ran my microphone setup after hooking up my 3’s my CSi A6 hasn’t been the same.

    The problem is in your AVR.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,145
    I think some of us don’t want to go and read the thread for 20 minutes every time we open it.
    Sorry if this has been said before, but did you try setting it up again, but without the RTiA3s?
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    edited August 24
    tonyb wrote: »
    Manually change those settings, why do you keep letting the receiver do it ?

    That’s not the point. The point is where it did set things and where it sets things now. To me that’s a pretty clear indication something wrong is happening. As I’ve mentioned a couple times already, manually setting things lower doesn’t make things better and doesn’t make things sound as good as they once did or how the large CSiA6 is supposed to sound.

    How dare you. My attitude was to try and help you. How you twist that around is just like somebody caught. I suggested hooking that center channel speaker of yours to a main speaker wire. That would've proved to all of us, the speaker was fine all the time. SIMPLE deduction method that I've done for 40 years.

    What does your comment in that quote above tell me?

    You didn't say the tweeter was still loud and clear...did you?

    Another member mentioned twice about your tweeter probably being a problem to the whole speaker too. I didn't read a response from you that the tweeter was loud and clear. I haven't re-read the whole thread, my dinner is about ready.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
2
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