Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player

1246

Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,860
    edited June 13
    It's a journey. You learn and discover as you gain experience and knowledge. Some gear really sings with tube rolling, some gear doesn't as much. Some tubes are night and day, some aren't.

    Spatial cues and midrange (like in a familiar vocal song), drive are the first things I noticed. I had one EL34 integrated early in my journey that was also tube rectified with a GZ34. Swapping in a Mullard GZ34 really upped the drive and lows of the amp, like no other rectifier. I wasn't really listening for that, but it was pretty apparent.

    You need to use music you are very familiar with, otherwise it's hard to tell the differences. I have a set of demo music that I am intimately familiar with. That's the music I use for evaluation of gear, tubes, caps, etc.

    The cdp has a great rep, so I would assume good things.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I'm a little worried that they're all going to sound "really good" to me, and I won't be able to discern any differences. :)

    I have extremely sensitive hearing, but I'm beginning to think that it means nothing if I don't know what to "listen for".
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Yes! Absolutely! Look for your sound and learn what you like and don't like. Give all of them a good listen.

    If you don't hear a difference, you may save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
    (and I am not being facetious)

    Why invest in sound you cannot hear?

    As the title of one of Richard Feynman's autobiographies (no lack of self-esteem for Feynman! ;) ) had it:

    s5w144t8w1r7.png
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    This probably isn't a good time to mention that I didn't really notice any difference between a $5 Monoprice RCA cable and a $450/meter RCA cable.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    If you don't hear a difference, you may save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
    (and I am not being facetious)

    Why invest in sound you cannot hear?

    Got Dayens?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    Clipdat wrote: »
    This probably isn't a good time to mention that I didn't really notice any difference between a $5 Monoprice RCA cable and a $450/meter RCA cable.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    If you don't hear a difference, you may save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
    (and I am not being facetious)

    Why invest in sound you cannot hear?

    Well -- it may not be the best on line forum for such a disclosure ;)

    On the subject of wires: I suspect that if you ignore things like price and brand name and simply try some different wires... you'll actually hear some
    differences. It may be hard to decide what is better; "better" can be a moving target. Actually, I guess better is a moving target by definition ;)

    Just my own opinion on the topic, be it wires or tubes or amplifiers or whatever: Don't get wrapped up in the wrong aspects of the game. Things like price and brand name and aesthetics are surrogate markers (as we tend to say in my line of work) for more important issues.



  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,833
    if you didn't know what to listen for.... I believe there was an amp that came through you may of still had if that was the case.....
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    edited June 13
    I've definitely heard differences in cables. That's why I tend to like the sound of these Audioquest King Cobra RCAs that I'm using currently.

    It's just that in that one situation, I couldn't discern any difference between a Monoprice vs. the very expensive cable. If anything, you'd think that knowing the high price per meter would subconsciously influence my perception and thus I would consider it to be "better", but nope.
    Got Dayens?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,860
    edited June 13
    Just keep and open mind, and find your own path. Some people are more discerning listeners. Some are just casual listeners. Some are more curious than others. Some are satisfied once a certain level is reached, etc, etc.

    As long as you give whatever aspect of the hobby an honest try, no one can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All I am doing is trying to relate my experiences to the forum. I know some think I'm crazy for the way I have totally immersed myself in tubes the past 10 years.

    It's been fascinating and rewarding and I've learned a lot. The "olden" days were pretty cool, we are loosing some of that today with iTunes and the generic playback hardware. Convenience far outweighs performance these days when it comes to music delivery.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    Ivan, I knew exactly what to listen for in that situation. Specifically it was an obnoxious electrical humming/buzzing noise that could be heard several feet away.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    if you didn't know what to listen for.... I believe there was an amp that came through you may of still had if that was the case.....

    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,833
    your ears will tell you on the tubes the same way. some just will not float your boat, others will sound sweet as candy to your ears....
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    edited June 13
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Just keep and open mind, and find your own path. Some people are more discerning listeners. Some are just casual listeners. Some are more curious than others. Some are satisfied once a certain level is reached, etc, etc.

    As long as you give whatever aspect of the hobby an honest try, no one can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All I am doing is trying to relate my experiences to the forum. I know some think I'm crazy for the way I have totally immersed myself in tubes the past 10 years.

    It's been fascinating and rewarding and I've learned a lot. The "olden" days were pretty cool, we are loosing some of that today with iTunes and the generic playback hardware. Convenience far outweighs performance these days when it comes to music delivery.

    H9

    I - personally - find the modern platforms way harder to navigate than tapes and rekkids (and even CDs)... so many options, and they all seem to need tweaks and, of course, as soon as one gets used to something, there's a new s/w rev and it changes.

    Guess I better go chase some punk kids off my lawn and yell at a cloud, now. ;)

    lh4rdo4e3yyy.png
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,272
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    if you didn't know what to listen for.... I believe there was an amp that came through you may of still had if that was the case.....

    Ummmm.....what? :p
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,833
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.

    Nope McCormick
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.

    Nope McCormick

    oops, sorry! What's the deal with "the McCormick"? I am, not uncharacteristically, clueless.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,272
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.

    Yeah, I knew the subject. I was just in awe of the execution. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,833
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Ivan, I knew exactly what to listen for in that situation. Specifically it was an obnoxious electrical humming/buzzing noise that could be heard several feet away.



  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,003
    edited June 13
    ahh, right :p
    I was thinking of the Firebomb when I read that post! :/
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,058
    edited June 13
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.

    Nope McCormick

    oops, sorry! What's the deal with "the McCormick"? I am, not uncharacteristically, clueless.

    Man doc...there was about 1000 posts about that McCormick amp Drew got that stunk, hummed and whined. His wife couldn't even stand the noise.

    The store he bought it from kind-of didn't want to give him his money back. It was a touch and go situation that had all of us hooked to his dilemma like a person who's hooked on some great daily soap or series on TV. Just like your amp from Dave! We all watch daily for the next episode. B)
    Research McCormick with Drew as the poster probably.

    A lot of us felt for Drew. A lot felt for the amp reselling store since they had bought some things from them. It was intense sometimes. ;) But it worked out for Drew. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    It's all dust in the wind now, and all of that drama must've been for a bigger reason.

    Because all of that, it lead to me getting my Dayens Ampino Monoblocks and I couldn't be happier with them.
    Got Dayens?
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,058
    I agree with you Drew! :)

    You definitely have some GREAT SOUNDING amps in those Dayens. Exactly what you were looking for in the beginning. B)

    I wonder if that amp is back for sale there now?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    It went back up for sale shortly after I returned it, and it was purchased again a few weeks later. Haven't seen it on the site since.
    Tony M wrote: »
    I wonder if that amp is back for sale there now?

    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,524
    We had a little fun with, and at the expense of, Clipdat with that situation. It's all good, as they say. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this unit, as well as your experience with the tubes you try, during this part of the journey....wait...

    is that a hum I hear developing in the right channel??? :) B)
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    I just realized I still need to post a formal review of the Ampino Monos.
    Got Dayens?
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    One of the tubes has what looks like a half circle with a dot in it and then 8A in gray text.

    The other has no gray text but has yellow text in that area that says 83 and then another letter/number that's been wiped off.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    GAx = production code for the ECC88

    7Lx = production code for the E88CC

    "x" being the change code (0,1,2,A,B,C etc)

    D getter and D getter w/pinched waist are early

    ring getter is middle dated

    closed getter is later

    closed getter w/dimples is later yet.

    This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.

    Got Dayens?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,860
    edited June 13
    Clipdat wrote: »
    One of the tubes has what looks like a half circle with a dot in it and then 8A in gray text.

    The other has no gray text but has yellow text in that area that says 83 and then another letter/number that's been wiped off.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    GAx = production code for the ECC88

    7Lx = production code for the E88CC

    "x" being the change code (0,1,2,A,B,C etc)

    D getter and D getter w/pinched waist are early

    ring getter is middle dated

    closed getter is later

    closed getter w/dimples is later yet.

    This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.

    The first one is Ei Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.

    not sure on the 2nd one. Have to see it.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    edited June 13
    Wow, you're fast! Well, they are an identical pair. They both have the same Gold Aero markings, but only one has the gray production code.

    Anyway, it sounds like they aren't terrible, so that's a bonus!

    Edit: This looks an awfully lot like it: http://www.tubes.rs/pcc88-ei-yugoslavia-a-frame-dimpled-disc-getter-version-7dj8/
    heiney9 wrote: »
    The first one is EI Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.

    not sure on the 2nd one. Have to see it.

    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,524
    If, by chance, Brock dangles a Valvo Hamburg in front of you I'd suggest taking advantage of that opportunity.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,272
    kharp1 wrote: »
    If, by chance, Brock dangles a Valvo Hamburg in front of you I'd suggest taking advantage of that opportunity.

    Dare I Google "Valvo Hamburg"? :p
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,718
    Yeah, you can Google it, just don't Google "dangling dingus".
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Dare I Google "Valvo Hamburg"? :p

    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,524
    Viking64 wrote: »
    kharp1 wrote: »
    If, by chance, Brock dangles a Valvo Hamburg in front of you I'd suggest taking advantage of that opportunity.

    Dare I Google "Valvo Hamburg"? :p

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvo&prev=search
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

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