Second foray into non-Polk tower speakers

mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
Second foray into non-Polk tower speakers are about to begin. On the way are Totem Hawks. These Hawks are second hand and likely broken in so should sound fantastic.

Let the experiments begin.
Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
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Comments

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,712
    Got Dayens?
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,308
    Can't wait to hear your thoughts!
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
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    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
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    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
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  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,045
    I've heard a small Totem bookie set-up with a Adcom GFA555II and they were AMAZING! I should've bought them but I wanted the 555II more. :#

    Enjoy. I'm sure the bass will be pretty good. And if you need more, a sub added will make a FANTASTIC and almost unbeatable sound field. B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    edited May 4
    @Clipdat that is the world famous pair destined to show up on my door steps on Monday. And yes literally it should be that pair.

    I'm contemplating testing them with two different Amps: McIntosh MA-5200 and the second is the pre/amp C47/RB-1590 combo.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    edited May 7
    First impressions after four hours and rotating in four rooms.

    Positives:
    1) I really like the sound, the midrange and especially reproduction of female vocals are spot on and I can agree. References across rooms Taylor Swift and Molly Jewel
    2) The soundstage claims are true, the KEF Q100 while on a different budget they really image well but compared to the Totem, the Hawks disappears throwing out a pretty wide soundstage it doesn’t sound like a box.
    3) bass claims are not exaggerated, in two rooms with first shot at placement based on distance to the rear wall and distance apart the Hawks generated a good amount of deep bass surprising for its size. Both rooms happen to be on the 2nd floor of my house.

    Negatives:
    1) the Hawks really need power with the volume dial cranked up
    2) they don’t crank out lots of volume, (but what they do is very sweet)
    3) while the woofer is extra long throw it looks to work really hard to push a moderate amount sound

    All use Airplay optical into the builtin DAC for all rooms except the Sansui which uses the DAC in an iPhone 5. Music played from Tidal app.

    Room 1. McIntosh MA5200, Polk LSi25 vs Totem

    Polk by a smidge, soundstage was fuller in the upper mids and can reach deeper even with the Polk’s subs are normally cranked way way down, they’re a bit hot.

    Room 2. McIntosh C47/Rotel RB1590 Polk LSiM 707 vs Totem

    Polk by a long shot, the 707s are the best full range speaker pair I own. The room may have been too big for the Hawks.

    Room 3. Rotel RA1570 Martin Logan Motion 40/Dynamo500 vs Totem

    Tie, this was the surprising room, the Hawks where able to keep up not necessarily in volume but quality the sub was off in comparisons and when it is active it’s volume is also turned way down and crossover at 40Hz. I can easily see the Hawks in this room with a 12” stand.

    Room 4. Sansui AU-6900 Kef Q100 vs Totem

    The Hawks, this room was also my favorite and the smallest at 16x15.

    Conclusions: the Hawks are amazing with that sweet midrange. Possible improvements, crossover ar 100Hz and blend in a fast sub to do all the high energy bass work. It’s not really needed in smaller rooms.

    Room 1
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    erf2368b6cbk.jpeg
    Room 2
    1x8yi4sdx4c0.jpeg
    ce6834p7t4xx.jpeg
    Room 3
    xucr53ig3q68.jpeg
    vd8ty9owmxhm.jpeg
    Room 4
    cdem5m5l82v2.jpeg
    qwahpy6irg6c.jpeg
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,867
    I know this speaker and I'll be honest - you aren't doing it any favors with setup. Do it properly in one room and spend much time getting a good position. Positioning is critical with the Hawk. THIS is the speaker that got me interested in carrying Totem a few years ago and can obliterate the Polk at its own game, but it is decidedly NOT a full range speaker.

    Keep I mind also that sometimes you need to acclimate to a new sound. Don't hastily push it in and out of systems. Give it time.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    @DSkip I haven’t decided which room to set it up in. So I just tried them all. Also in what way do you mean it can obliterate the Polk? The Polk is by no means perfect but what game? On price to performance?

    These are used and near mint but the tacky substance on the woofer is a bit of a concern. It’s a dust magnet and not sure if it’ll eventually dry. I’m assuming it’s well broken in from the previous owner and is a year old so it should have out gassed manufacturing chemicals.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,867
    The Hawk have the ability to completely disappear and do everything right within their limits. They are truly an exceptional speaker - one that the used market price doesn't necessarily lead you to believe. I was shocked by them and prefer them over the bigger Forest by a large margin.

    My point was that a quick 'shootout' isn't a good idea with these. This speaker would like something in the range of a small bedroom and will struggle with output in a larger room. You can be somewhat flexible on the chain in front but they are far more revealing of components than the Polks are. Polk will give their own signature and it won't vary much in terms of positioning - you will get improved sound, but not vastly different.

    In the case of the Hawk, their game is the disappearing act and the ability to do special things in space. This is why placement is so critical with them. Even a slight more toe in or out can make a HUGE difference with them. I wouldn't give up on them unless you have at least a month or two to begin dialing them in.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    I haven’t given up on them... I will pull out the ML Motion 40, try the Hawks in the bedroom (Room 3) for one month and see how it goes. Will report back in June.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,748
    Only thing I don't like about the Hawks is that they are so small. For some reason I can't get into small floor standers. Small bookies however, I can.

    Maybe I am used to SDA's haha.

    Bet they sound great! I had the Totem Dreamcatchers and they were a very nice sounding tiny monitor.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,867
    One thing I noticed - do you have the ball bearings that go with the feet? If not, get some. Like I said above, setup is critical with these. If you don't want to go that route, maybe consider a pair of Star Sound Technology Apprentice SoundWorks platforms to go underneath them. The SW-ESSENTIAL-3 would be a good one and is their cheapest platform at $190 each. I know that's a big outlay but I could see these Star Sound products doing wonders for a speaker like the Hawk.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    No balls, original owner looking for them. If not I can find balls online.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 7,545
    mpitogo wrote: »
    If not I can find balls online.

    q3iCWqE.gif
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    balls found!
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • Msabot1Msabot1 Posts: 2,114
    Hawks are decent speakers...for what they are...but will not stand up against 707's given the same amplification in any room...It's like comparing apples to oranges..
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    edited May 8
    I know I was asking for it with those last two posts...

    ScoopOnPoop.jpg
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,615
    You have 4 stereo rooms?
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,867
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    Hawks are decent speakers...for what they are...but will not stand up against 707's given the same amplification in any room...It's like comparing apples to oranges..

    Not for full range sound. For everything else the Hawk is a far superior speaker but like I said above, it takes effort to pull that potential out.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • Msabot1Msabot1 Posts: 2,114
    DSkip wrote: »
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    Hawks are decent speakers...for what they are...but will not stand up against 707's given the same amplification in any room...It's like comparing apples to oranges..

    Not for full range sound. For everything else the Hawk is a far superior speaker but like I said above, it takes effort to pull that potential out.

    Isn't full range the goal in home audio reproduction??...
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    @Joey_V :# yes... might be adding a 5th. The new Totem's just displaced ML's in one room and I also have a pair of ACA mono blocks on order.

    @dskip I'm starting to hear the potential half-inch at a time.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,183
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    Hawks are decent speakers...for what they are...but will not stand up against 707's given the same amplification in any room...It's like comparing apples to oranges..

    Not for full range sound. For everything else the Hawk is a far superior speaker but like I said above, it takes effort to pull that potential out.

    Isn't full range the goal in home audio reproduction??...

    which is the better speaker?
    raidho xt-1 80 Hz – 50 KHz
    or
    Polk 707 20 Hz → 40 Hz
    full range does not make it the better speaker.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    I finally got my balls in the mail! :D I will raise the speakers with the following decoupling solutions, 2” speaker foam blocks then 2” chopping boards followed by the balls and Hawks’ claws.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • HzTweakerHzTweaker Posts: 457
    This is a great thread! The information is awesome but mostly because it made me LOL at work. :) Can't wait to hear your thoughts now that the balls are in the picture. B)
    2ch rig:
    Speakers: Lsi9
    Preamplifier: Parasound P5
    Power Amp: Parasound A23
    CDP: Pioneer DV-563A; the Denon is riding shotgun.
    Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB
  • Msabot1Msabot1 Posts: 2,114
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    Msabot1 wrote: »
    Hawks are decent speakers...for what they are...but will not stand up against 707's given the same amplification in any room...It's like comparing apples to oranges..

    Not for full range sound. For everything else the Hawk is a far superior speaker but like I said above, it takes effort to pull that potential out.

    Isn't full range the goal in home audio reproduction??...

    which is the better speaker?
    raidho xt-1 80 Hz – 50 KHz
    or
    Polk 707 20 Hz → 40 Hz
    full range does not make it the better speaker.

    Well..I guess you have a point...if you have ears of pure Bolivian tin...LOL!..
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,744
    Marv was raised in Bolivia, a distant cousin to Butch Cassidy....so I wouldn't piss him off too quickly. ;) :) :)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    Tad 803 bookies
    Polk 500 surrounds
    Polk s35 center
    SVS SB-2000
    Sonos

    Music-

    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k 1430 amp
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    ERA D5 bookies

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    edited May 14
    Balls installed on top of 2” teak chopping boards and speaker foam blocks. Bass is now boomy. Room boundary gain in effect, same location as the previous setup but raised 4”. It seems tweaks with balls and inches do matter and it’s now floor/ceiling speaker height ratio. Speaker positioning is a 3 dimensional affair with these speakers.

    brijk7ockgca.jpeg
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,867
    It is with every speaker, but like I said earlier, its exacerbated with these speakers.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    edited May 14
    Added slight toe in and tilt back with a disk on the front ball helped a bit. Speakers are 7.5’ apart, 1’ from rear wall to backs of the cabinet, 4.2’ from left wall and 7.5’ from right wall. I may need to pull these further into the room.

    05z1z5u22zsz.jpeg
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 9,858
    Too much decoupling. Takes the "life" out of the speaker. Try it with the balls on the floor.
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