Modern medicine...

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Plus, antibiotics will kill all your good gut flora, and that can take over a year to replenish. Not unless you absolutely have to with antibiotics
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    tonyb wrote: »
    Plus, antibiotics will kill all your good gut flora, and that can take over a year to replenish. Not unless you absolutely have to with antibiotics

    For sure, I’ve always taken probiotics, even before they were a fad. I’ve been doubling up on them for at least 4 months now, and have finally been able to dial them back now that I’m normal again. The levofloxacin was like dropping an atom bomb on a mouse. Stay away from it at all costs.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Therein lies the problem.

    Doctors don't know everything.

    But everyone else expects them to.

    If it does not align, then here come the complaints and the lawsuits.

    I am upfront with my patients, especially that ones that remain enigmas. I tell them, I don't know everything, here are things I'm concerned about, here are things I do know... you need to watch for this, this, this, and this - make sure to see your specialists, etc.

    I’ve recently had a bit of a health scare, it’s been an 8 month battle, that started just a week after my 34th bday last year. Woke up in the middle of the night with a fever, and felt like someone kicked me in the nuts. Was up all night peeing every 20 minutes and Felt like I fell down the stairs. Went to the doc the next day, my doc suspected an std, but have been faithful to the same girl for 5 years. Tests came back negative, and I was diagnosed with prostatitis (inflammation of the prostate). I was put on what I consider a very, very nasty antibiotic called levoflaxacin for 6 weeks. This stuff is absolutely nasty, I didn’t respond very well to this stuff, I suffered on it for 4 weeks, until I went to the emergency room from this stuff, I felt like I was slowly poisoning myself. I was then prescribed bactrim DS, which I took for another 4 weeks. All was well, and the Doc took me off the meds. 2 weeks later symptoms returned. To make a long story short I saw 5 different doctors, and not one could figure out what was wrong with me, that’s when they started looking for cancer. Prostate was small and smooth, blood tests for liver, PSA levels, kidney, ultrasound of kidneys, bladder, reproductive system and all my other bits down there to rule anything out, and all is normal.

    Doctors referred me to a urologist, wait time is 4 months. So 4 months In pain, and doctors clueless as to what’s wrong with me, I’ve been diagnosed within 20 minutes of the urologist seeing me, with over active pelvic floor muscles. 2 1 hour sessions with a physiotherapist and 20 minutes of special stretches every night and I’m cured In less than a week. Zero pain, zero meds and Absolutely zero symptoms. Only if I could have seen the right person in the first place I wouldn’t have been suffering for 8 months, not to mention all of the time taken off work for all of these tests. There Nothing more terrifying than doctors searching your body for cancer because there is no other explanation of what’s going on. It’s been traumatic but I certainly have a different look at life now. I’ve always been physically fit, Ive been practicing martial arts for 6 years, and I eat healthy Whole Foods, and the gym 4-5 times a week. The specialist figures it was the heavy weight I’ve been pulling on leg days (deadlifting around 340lbs). So now I lift light weights with high volume like a girl.

    But man do I feel good knowing I’m not dying! It’s taken my body at least 5 months to go back
    To normal from the war of antibiotics inside me. Holy crap that stuff is nasty. Stay away at all costs unless your dying. I eventually told them I won’t take anymore of it, they kept shotgunning meds at me with no clue.

    Something does not make sense.

    How would overactive pelvic floor muscles cause a fever?

    Likely what happened was you had a urologic infection which resolved with the antibiotics you were given but you had a consequential side effect of still having pain secondary to overactive pelvic floor muscles.
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Therein lies the problem.

    Doctors don't know everything.

    But everyone else expects them to.

    If it does not align, then here come the complaints and the lawsuits.

    I am upfront with my patients, especially that ones that remain enigmas. I tell them, I don't know everything, here are things I'm concerned about, here are things I do know... you need to watch for this, this, this, and this - make sure to see your specialists, etc.

    I’ve recently had a bit of a health scare, it’s been an 8 month battle, that started just a week after my 34th bday last year. Woke up in the middle of the night with a fever, and felt like someone kicked me in the nuts. Was up all night peeing every 20 minutes and Felt like I fell down the stairs. Went to the doc the next day, my doc suspected an std, but have been faithful to the same girl for 5 years. Tests came back negative, and I was diagnosed with prostatitis (inflammation of the prostate). I was put on what I consider a very, very nasty antibiotic called levoflaxacin for 6 weeks. This stuff is absolutely nasty, I didn’t respond very well to this stuff, I suffered on it for 4 weeks, until I went to the emergency room from this stuff, I felt like I was slowly poisoning myself. I was then prescribed bactrim DS, which I took for another 4 weeks. All was well, and the Doc took me off the meds. 2 weeks later symptoms returned. To make a long story short I saw 5 different doctors, and not one could figure out what was wrong with me, that’s when they started looking for cancer. Prostate was small and smooth, blood tests for liver, PSA levels, kidney, ultrasound of kidneys, bladder, reproductive system and all my other bits down there to rule anything out, and all is normal.

    Doctors referred me to a urologist, wait time is 4 months. So 4 months In pain, and doctors clueless as to what’s wrong with me, I’ve been diagnosed within 20 minutes of the urologist seeing me, with over active pelvic floor muscles. 2 1 hour sessions with a physiotherapist and 20 minutes of special stretches every night and I’m cured In less than a week. Zero pain, zero meds and Absolutely zero symptoms. Only if I could have seen the right person in the first place I wouldn’t have been suffering for 8 months, not to mention all of the time taken off work for all of these tests. There Nothing more terrifying than doctors searching your body for cancer because there is no other explanation of what’s going on. It’s been traumatic but I certainly have a different look at life now. I’ve always been physically fit, Ive been practicing martial arts for 6 years, and I eat healthy Whole Foods, and the gym 4-5 times a week. The specialist figures it was the heavy weight I’ve been pulling on leg days (deadlifting around 340lbs). So now I lift light weights with high volume like a girl.

    But man do I feel good knowing I’m not dying! It’s taken my body at least 5 months to go back
    To normal from the war of antibiotics inside me. Holy crap that stuff is nasty. Stay away at all costs unless your dying. I eventually told them I won’t take anymore of it, they kept shotgunning meds at me with no clue.

    Something does not make sense.

    How would overactive pelvic floor muscles cause a fever?

    Likely what happened was you had a urologic infection which resolved with the antibiotics you were given but you had a consequential side effect of still having pain secondary to overactive pelvic floor muscles.

    This is exactly what the urologist said. Sorry If my post was confusing. Trying to sum 8 months into 3 small paragraphs left out alot of details, some that I don’t want to share, and a ton of things I don’t understand.

    My point was if I could have been referred to a specialist 4-5 months ago, could have saved me a lot of pain and discomfort due to these secondary pains. The doctors were basically scratching their heads, where a specialist pinpointed the issue fairly quickly.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
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    Thanks for the heads up dislike of Levoflaxacin.

    I have been prescribed "Lunesta" years ago for a sleep aid. The cures' taste really was worse than the symptom by far!

    Who the heck thinks that crap is good for humans too is NUTS. Read the reviews. It DOES taste like sticking change in your mouth. Specifically PENNIES. It ruins your taste of anything you eat the next day while on the crap.

    I have been prescribed pain relief patches for my neck pain too. They're suposed to last 5-7 days or a month, I forget. I stopped the 2 pills a day and waited for the patch to kick in. I waited, and waited,..... for 4 days. NOTHING but neck pain!!!

    I still had some pills left so I took one. Instant relief. ;)

    Some of these new medications or delivery technics are Garbage!! Why can't the Doctors stick with tried and proven techniques and drugs that our parents got? Years and years of RESULTS.

    Nothing is EVER said about alcohol being used too much for pain relief or whatever ails a person. NOTHING! WHY NOT?

    Money to be made, maybe?

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,604
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    Here's a "modern" pain relief option: https://infinitecbd.com/
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
    edited April 2018
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    Here's a "modern" pain relief option: https://infinitecbd.com/

    I've tried the CBD spray/spritz once and LIKED IT a lot. As soon as SS kicks in (or my 401K goes back up), in a year+, I'll get my own supply for sure! ;):pB)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 1,048
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    Follow up
    Gimpy McGimperson came home today. Walked the 75 feet from the road into the house, settled into her chair & said. "I need a Scotch". :p
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
    edited April 2018
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    Sounds like good spirits no pun intended...but if the shoe fits ;)

    Glad she's home Tony, well wishes
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  • Kingrat
    Kingrat Posts: 74
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    All too often, the doctors just make a diagnosis and like the district attorney who won't admit they put an innocent person in jail, they go into blinders mode and refuse to even consider they might be wrong.

    In '86, my then 61 year old mother started complaining about being "wiped out". She went to her internist who put her on something that didn't do anything. After a while, they decided to run a crapload of tests in the hospital. They all came back fine, except that she had signs of a minor infection. The doctors decided she was depressed, so they put her on a tiny dose of an antidepressant. My mom and I can tolerate amazing amounts of opiates, especially intravenously, but within days, she could barely walk by herself. On top of that, she got kind of "loopy", and I finally told her to stop taking it. Within 3 days she was walking fine again, and still "wiped out". The head shrink talked to me and was "certain" she was depressed. I've known people who were depressed and her symptoms didn't fit. Then her gynocologist had the idea she had Mono! The shrink laughed at him to his face. So did several other doctors. Of course, he was right, she had mono. About 3 months later, she was over it and felt fine. About a year later, a relative of ours had vague abdominal pain, and she was told it was psychosomatic, and not to worry about it. All scans and tests came back negative. The same doctor who diagnosed my mom's Mono thought she had an undetected tumor. They laughed at him again. The hospital refused to allow him "the insanity" of using their equipment to look for the mystery tumor, so he did it the "old fashioned way" by putting his hands in "both sides" (Yikes), and there it was, about the size of a baseball. They didn't laugh at him anymore when they saw it after it was removed. If it had stayed inside her until it showed under normal testing, she would have been terminal. Because of his "insanity", she lived another cancer free 9 years and died of a stroke at 80.

    I recently had my own deal with doctors that I'm still dealing with. One night at work, I had what was diagnosed as a "Ocular migraine with aura" (Look up migraine auras to see some wild stuff). In my left eye, everything went purple in an odd grid that looked like purple 3 leaf clovers, with a hole I could see out of in the middle. Needless to say, it scared the crap out of me, and I prepared to go to the ER when it suddenly went away. I had never heard of Ocular migraines and auras, so after I went to the eye doctor, I was still clueless about them, and was scheduled for a carotid artery ultrasound, which has turned into a train wreck of them claiming they can't find me, but they send me letters to the correct address with the correct contact info! I looked the auras up and an almost lifetime mystery was solved. I've been having Ocular Migraines for at least 55 years, just with a different kind of aura. For as long as I can remember, about once a week or so, I see what kind of looks like this, except it's much dimmer and has less rainbow colors and more black and yellow, and I only can see it if I close my left eye or in a very dark room.
    wbaduipht9td.jpg One of the neat things about it is it pulsates at about 200 HZ. When I was a little kid, I called it the "flashing snake". I told my eye doctor about it back when I was about 6, and he said "I don't think it's anything to worry about. But it seems like when I told them about having them all these years, it upped their worry about it as it lessened mine. I spoke to a doctor I know and he laughed about it, saying, "If you've had them over a half century, I doubt that suddenly you're doomed".
    So far, a month has come and gone, and they still aren't calling me to set up the ultrasound and I'm about ready to tell them to stick it. I've seen the "flashing snake" 3 times since I went to the eye doctor, and if it was gone, I would miss it. Not that they can do anything about it anyway at this point.

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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
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    I have never heard of that!

    WOW. It's like something from "Twilight Zone".

    That makes me think you're seeing the time warp fabric between our two realms. ;)

    SERIOUSLY. Why else would human eyes produce such patterns and it's kind of rare I suppose. Like NDEs like I had. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    To be fair, doctors are very good at pattern recognition, once you present with ATYPICAL chief complaints or when your complaints begin to cross different systems and or different field of studies, it becomes a little complicated.

    Seeking a 2nd opinion or a 3rd is always warranted especially if your complaint is not of the typical kind. Getting a fresh perspective is often invaluable.

    I would not fault the docs however. All are human. You yourself would likely be in the exact same position even if you were to go through medical school and residency training.

    In the end, there are things that are simply unexplainable at this point in time. The problem is people always want an explanation.
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  • Kingrat
    Kingrat Posts: 74
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    Tony M wrote: »
    I have never heard of that!

    WOW. It's like something from "Twilight Zone".

    That makes me think you're seeing the time warp fabric between our two realms. ;)

    SERIOUSLY. Why else would human eyes produce such patterns and it's kind of rare I suppose. Like NDEs like I had. ;)


    It's a Wormhole!
    I never heard of them either, even though I was having the auras all these years. If I had the headaches, that would be horrible, but I don't have any symptoms at all, except I see the "flashing snake" once a week or every 10 days or so. In a way, I wish mine were more intense, as mine are pretty dull and the pulsation is the only thing I really wonder about. Why does it pulsate, and how does it do it? I should just probably be grateful I don't have the headaches. In fact, I've rarely had a headache, ever. I've only noticed it happening once when I was driving at night from LA to Vegas, and it was easily ignored. I have allergies to all kinds of plants and I always thought the "snake" was from rubbing my left eye a lot. I probably rub my left eye 3x as much as my right. I do it a lot when sleeping and when awake.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
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    Kingrat wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I have never heard of that!

    WOW. It's like something from "Twilight Zone".

    That makes me think you're seeing the time warp fabric between our two realms. ;)

    SERIOUSLY. Why else would human eyes produce such patterns and it's kind of rare I suppose. Like NDEs like I had. ;)


    It's a Wormhole!
    I never heard of them either, even though I was having the auras all these years. If I had the headaches, that would be horrible, but I don't have any symptoms at all, except I see the "flashing snake" once a week or every 10 days or so. In a way, I wish mine were more intense, as mine are pretty dull and the pulsation is the only thing I really wonder about. Why does it pulsate, and how does it do it? I should just probably be grateful I don't have the headaches. In fact, I've rarely had a headache, ever. I've only noticed it happening once when I was driving at night from LA to Vegas, and it was easily ignored. I have allergies to all kinds of plants and I always thought the "snake" was from rubbing my left eye a lot. I probably rub my left eye 3x as much as my right. I do it a lot when sleeping and when awake.

    I forgot about the wormhole theory.

    I'm also glad you don't experience the pain some people do.

    I thought the same thing. I watched a video or two of what you experience and it truly is unexplainable isn't it?

    The patterns don't make sense to me. What you guys and gals see is like looking through a spinning kaleidoscope with flashing light pulses. CRAZY and personal too. I've tried telling my NDE to a hundred people and they just look at me like; YEA, RIGHT!

    People have to experience this phenaminon for themselves to understand them on a level like we do ;) !
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Jaybeez
    Jaybeez Posts: 748
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    My mother in law had both of her hips replaced. My wife started having hip issues at about the same age her mother did.
    The orthopod did Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) therapy on her and she's been pain free for 3+ years.
    Insurance covers hip replacement, but not PRP. Go figure.
    Our learning: Go to doctors in wealthy areas. They have the best gear, and are up on the latest / greatest treatment. Her doctor is in Newport Beach, where most residents' cars cost more than my house!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,100
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    From where I come from, flashing the snake can get you sent to jail...
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,050
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    [quote="Kingrat;c-2409230"
    wbaduipht9td.jpg One of the neat things about it is it pulsates at about 200 HZ. When I was a little kid, I called it the "flashing snake". I told my eye doctor about it back when I was about 6, and he said "I don't think it's anything to worry about. But it seems like when I told them about having them all these years, it upped their worry about it as it lessened mine. I spoke to a doctor I know and he laughed about it, saying, "If you've had them over a half century, I doubt that suddenly you're doomed".
    So far, a month has come and gone, and they still aren't calling me to set up the ultrasound and I'm about ready to tell them to stick it. I've seen the "flashing snake" 3 times since I went to the eye doctor, and if it was gone, I would miss it. Not that they can do anything about it anyway at this point.

    [/quote]
    I've had something similar to what you're describing. IOP had shot up to 55 because of a failed trabeculectomy. Get yourself a competent eye specialist as these flashes are a warning sign. My best guess is elevated pressure or retina problems; possibly torn or detached. Don't waste your time on the doctor that "laughed" about this. This is no laughing matter it's your eyesight.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    I seem to recall, that flashing snake thing was tied more to neurological disorders. Pressure built up along the nerves feeding the eyes. Some see lightning bolts also.

    Many things can be associated with built up pressure in the body. Brain tumors have long been associated with strange visuals. I would imagine to tackle this snake thing, start with the easiest things first to reduce inflammation in the body. Don't put your eyes in stressful situations either, like staring at a computer screen to close/long, looking at Russ for any length of time. :)
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Not to go off track, but somewhat related....

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/30/fda-weedkiller-glyphosate-in-food-internal-emails

    Good point in the article of which I totally agree with....is that all this stuff is cumulative. Add all the additional crap from canned goods, boxed or frozen. Ya think any of that might have an effect on your neurological system or inflammation ? All the junk they shoot up livestock with, to keep them healthy just long enough to get to slaughter....your ingesting that as well.

    All this stuff is cumulative, builds up, and never really leaves the body. We don't pay attention to it though until we hit middle ages and start having issues. Almost impossible for a doctor to diagnose, but there is always a drug to prescribe to keep YOU healthy long enough until your value to society runs out.

    Doctors are caught in the middle between a rock and a hard place, unless they have their own practice and even then they have hurdles. It's impossible for them to know everything, but it's also the person's responsibility to take some accountability for their health. Some people treat them like car mechanics....just fix it, who cares that I've been beatin' on the car for years.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
    edited April 2018
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    That there is funny. (the last part.):D I didn't see it coming! ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Kingrat
    Kingrat Posts: 74
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    Tony M wrote: »
    Kingrat wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I have never heard of that!

    WOW. It's like something from "Twilight Zone".

    That makes me think you're seeing the time warp fabric between our two realms. ;)

    SERIOUSLY. Why else would human eyes produce such patterns and it's kind of rare I suppose. Like NDEs like I had. ;)


    It's a Wormhole!
    I never heard of them either, even though I was having the auras all these years. If I had the headaches, that would be horrible, but I don't have any symptoms at all, except I see the "flashing snake" once a week or every 10 days or so. In a way, I wish mine were more intense, as mine are pretty dull and the pulsation is the only thing I really wonder about. Why does it pulsate, and how does it do it? I should just probably be grateful I don't have the headaches. In fact, I've rarely had a headache, ever. I've only noticed it happening once when I was driving at night from LA to Vegas, and it was easily ignored. I have allergies to all kinds of plants and I always thought the "snake" was from rubbing my left eye a lot. I probably rub my left eye 3x as much as my right. I do it a lot when sleeping and when awake.

    I forgot about the wormhole theory.

    I'm also glad you don't experience the pain some people do.

    I thought the same thing. I watched a video or two of what you experience and it truly is unexplainable isn't it?

    The patterns don't make sense to me. What you guys and gals see is like looking through a spinning kaleidoscope with flashing light pulses. CRAZY and personal too. I've tried telling my NDE to a hundred people and they just look at me like; YEA, RIGHT!

    People have to experience this phenaminon for themselves to understand them on a level like we do ;) !

    On the NDE, I have no concept of what that would be like. You probably get the same reaction I get when I tell people about the time 2 of our TV sets were destroyed by Ball Lightning. One of the strangest experiences of my life. I saw, from about 6 feet away the second one come in, my mother saw the first one. This is the closest pic of it I've ever seen. I drew one with markers one time and she said that the one she saw was pretty close to what I saw:

    8wi6kjewmq9z.jpg

    My mother and I were both sick in the spring of '73, there was a moderate thunderstorm coming through. I was in the family room, watching the pirated movie channel. My mother was in bed, watching an old movie on a local station. Our dog was in bed with her. All of a sudden, the hallway outside her bedroom lit up like a series of flashbulbs were being set off. My mother yelled, "What was that?", and the dog came out, totally terrified, and very little scared him. I went into her room and the TV was smoking and was obviously dead. I took it outside because it stunk horribly. My mother said a "fireball" came out of the TV and "Popped" which were the series of flashes I saw. I was upset that I didn't see it. We talked for about 10 minutes and I went back into the family room. The dog was on the couch, still upset. I got him to play that always calmed him down. He passed out, and about a half hour or so later, the storm picked up again. We had an air conditioner above the TV, as the house AC was a little weak then in the summer, and all of a sudden, I could feel the hair on my arms and head stand up, and the dog woke up and looked at me with his big Beagle eyes. A fireball came out of the A/C unit. It sounded like when you pour water into a pan filled with hot oil. It drifted like an old helium balloon towards the couch and the dog. I said, "Wow!", and then it exploded. A hunk of it, whatever it was, hit the slate piece of our old coffee table, bounced off and disappeared, the rest of it went into the floor and vanished. The dog ran into the kitchen and got under the table, and stayed there for about 4 hours. The big TV was gone too, the old motorized tuner's contacts were welded together. I took it outside and put it next to mom's TV. I called my dad and told him what happened and he said, "I guess we're going TV shopping tonight!". I pulled the tuner out and showed it and the back of the TV that was in their bedroom to him when he got home. The antenna leads from the back of the TV to the tuner were totally blown apart, and the screws where the 75 to 300 ohm balun attached to the back of the TV were melted. The Balun and about 10 feet of cable were scotched and toasted. I had to go in the basement and run a new line of cable from the splitter to the new TV. The other side of the cable was fine.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • Kingrat
    Kingrat Posts: 74
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    tonyb wrote: »
    I seem to recall, that flashing snake thing was tied more to neurological disorders. Pressure built up along the nerves feeding the eyes. Some see lightning bolts also.

    Many things can be associated with built up pressure in the body. Brain tumors have long been associated with strange visuals. I would imagine to tackle this snake thing, start with the easiest things first to reduce inflammation in the body. Don't put your eyes in stressful situations either, like staring at a computer screen to close/long, looking at Russ for any length of time. :)

    I think if it was pressure build up, after 55 years+, I would have exploded by now..
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
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    Kingrat wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    Kingrat wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I have never heard of that!

    WOW. It's like something from "Twilight Zone".

    That makes me think you're seeing the time warp fabric between our two realms. ;)

    SERIOUSLY. Why else would human eyes produce such patterns and it's kind of rare I suppose. Like NDEs like I had. ;)


    It's a Wormhole!
    I never heard of them either, even though I was having the auras all these years. If I had the headaches, that would be horrible, but I don't have any symptoms at all, except I see the "flashing snake" once a week or every 10 days or so. In a way, I wish mine were more intense, as mine are pretty dull and the pulsation is the only thing I really wonder about. Why does it pulsate, and how does it do it? I should just probably be grateful I don't have the headaches. In fact, I've rarely had a headache, ever. I've only noticed it happening once when I was driving at night from LA to Vegas, and it was easily ignored. I have allergies to all kinds of plants and I always thought the "snake" was from rubbing my left eye a lot. I probably rub my left eye 3x as much as my right. I do it a lot when sleeping and when awake.

    I forgot about the wormhole theory.

    I'm also glad you don't experience the pain some people do.

    I thought the same thing. I watched a video or two of what you experience and it truly is unexplainable isn't it?

    The patterns don't make sense to me. What you guys and gals see is like looking through a spinning kaleidoscope with flashing light pulses. CRAZY and personal too. I've tried telling my NDE to a hundred people and they just look at me like; YEA, RIGHT!

    People have to experience this phenaminon for themselves to understand them on a level like we do ;) !

    On the NDE, I have no concept of what that would be like. You probably get the same reaction I get when I tell people about the time 2 of our TV sets were destroyed by Ball Lightning. One of the strangest experiences of my life. I saw, from about 6 feet away the second one come in, my mother saw the first one. This is the closest pic of it I've ever seen. I drew one with markers one time and she said that the one she saw was pretty close to what I saw:

    8wi6kjewmq9z.jpg

    My mother and I were both sick in the spring of '73, there was a moderate thunderstorm coming through. I was in the family room, watching the pirated movie channel. My mother was in bed, watching an old movie on a local station. Our dog was in bed with her. All of a sudden, the hallway outside her bedroom lit up like a series of flashbulbs were being set off. My mother yelled, "What was that?", and the dog came out, totally terrified, and very little scared him. I went into her room and the TV was smoking and was obviously dead. I took it outside because it stunk horribly. My mother said a "fireball" came out of the TV and "Popped" which were the series of flashes I saw. I was upset that I didn't see it. We talked for about 10 minutes and I went back into the family room. The dog was on the couch, still upset. I got him to play that always calmed him down. He passed out, and about a half hour or so later, the storm picked up again. We had an air conditioner above the TV, as the house AC was a little weak then in the summer, and all of a sudden, I could feel the hair on my arms and head stand up, and the dog woke up and looked at me with his big Beagle eyes. A fireball came out of the A/C unit. It sounded like when you pour water into a pan filled with hot oil. It drifted like an old helium balloon towards the couch and the dog. I said, "Wow!", and then it exploded. A hunk of it, whatever it was, hit the slate piece of our old coffee table, bounced off and disappeared, the rest of it went into the floor and vanished. The dog ran into the kitchen and got under the table, and stayed there for about 4 hours. The big TV was gone too, the old motorized tuner's contacts were welded together. I took it outside and put it next to mom's TV. I called my dad and told him what happened and he said, "I guess we're going TV shopping tonight!". I pulled the tuner out and showed it and the back of the TV that was in their bedroom to him when he got home. The antenna leads from the back of the TV to the tuner were totally blown apart, and the screws where the 75 to 300 ohm balun attached to the back of the TV were melted. The Balun and about 10 feet of cable were scotched and toasted. I had to go in the basement and run a new line of cable from the splitter to the new TV. The other side of the cable was fine.

    I loved reading about that. Dangerous stuff , that lightning is.

    A storm came up on me and a co-worker while working in a well. I was in the well and supported by a hanging aluminum ladder. My hair all over my body stood up and my tounge started tingling like a 9 volt battery was touching it. I came up fast and told my co-worker lightning is about to strick. Then That popping water in oil sound came down through the neighbors' trees about 70 feet away. It stayed there swirling like a column of fire energy. From the ground up through the trees to the sky I imagine.

    I'll never forget that either. There was NO burn marks on the ground from what I can recall about anything getting burned.

    I've read or heard about Ball Lightning. Strange phenomenon for sure!

    Then there is the NDE's. That's a whole nother topic. ;):po:):)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.