SDA airy & depth image and soundstage?

JasonCapaJasonCapa Posts: 10
edited February 13 in Vintage Speakers
I was wondering if anyone has achieved this?

I recently bought some 1C's and was wondering what is in your chain if you have achieved the holy trail with the SDA's?

Pre? Power Amps? Inegrated? Transport? Dac? Anything..? :)
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Comments

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,244
    I run 400 watt tube amps with Pass Labs preamp. Pure power and pure bliss.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • It takes everything; good electronics, updated crossovers, spikes, dreadnaught, good cabling and especially proper set up. When I got my first pair of sda's I could not for life of me wrap my head around not being able to plop them into place and getting great sound. So I ended up with lots of experience at doing everything wrong before I got everything right :D .
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,308
    JasonCapa wrote: »
    I was wondering if anyone has achieved this?

    I recently bought some 1C's and was wondering what is in your chain if you have achieved the holy trail with the SDA's?

    Pre? Power Amps? Inegrated? Transport? Dac? Anything..? :)

    Just checking in here - you are running the SDA cable between your 1c's, correct? You won't experience any of that if you aren't running SDA.

    That said, (Eastern Electric Minimax or Custom) Tube Preamp, powerful SS Amp (Pass Labs or McCormack) here - MIT Shotgun S3's - and the 1C's are everything of which you speak.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 595
    I have some 1C's. As mentioned int he other thread, I am not sure "airy" really fits the SDA's. Speaker placement, spacing, and listener position do have a significant effect, just like any speaker. Be sure they are not toe'd in. I have found they have decent depth, but it can depend on the source material. Some Chesky tracks sound great, and some others don't have a lot of depth on SDA's compared to conventional setups. They can be a little forward as well. Depth is best done with your eyes closed. The old stock crossovers may not be helping the issue either.

    The sound stage on the other hand is amazing, but again can depend on the source material. If it was recorded, being intended to be played by speakers about 5 feet apart, IMO SDA's can stretch it a bit far. Put on a good symphony or big band, and the stage is wide and accurate. I trick I say is to place your other speakers just to the outside of the SDA's and inline or just behind them as not to add reflections. Visually you will think the sound is coming from the outside speakers, not the SDA's.

    As F1 mentioned in the other thread a good SS amp works well. A ~100 WPC Hafler DH-220 did well, although it strained a little a high volumes. It beats a receiver. The 1C's can have a tougher impedance load, and the Hafler doesn't care at all. I upgrated to a 250 WPC Parasound amp, and preamp. There was an improvement, and not just because of the power. That amp had more than enough power and better detail with good depth. I also had run them with a ~100 WPC Krell integrated amp. It was a little more detailed than the Hafler medium volume, but didn't have the depth or warmth. It had more medium volume bass punch, but ran out of juice quicker at high volume.
  • JasonCapaJasonCapa Posts: 10
    edited February 13
    I am running the interconnect.

  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,095
    Ok. What do you hear?

    Can you describe it?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • JasonCapaJasonCapa Posts: 10
    edited February 14
    I hear width in sounstage more in between the speakers with spurts on the outer sides of the speakers. Still not as much as i expected and I'm not getting any or much depth at all. I'm thinking it maybe my DAC his not cutting it.
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,213
    What does the setup look like? Size of room, placement of speakers, are the speakers positioned properly, ie, facing forward (no toe) with adequate clearance on the sides?
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,511
    Photos would help us to help you immensely.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,294
    JasonCapa wrote: »
    I hear width in sounstage more in between the speakers with spurts on the outer sides of the speakers. Still not as much as i expected and I'm not getting any or much depth at all. I'm thinking it maybe my DAC his not cutting it.

    I just upgraded a pair of 2.3TL's. Your "symptoms" sound familiar to what I was experiencing before I started.

    I had a blown tweeter in each cabinet and a disconnected MW in one. After switching the blown tweeter in one cabinet to the bottom position and a good one to the top, and reconnecting the MW in the other cabinet, the improvements were quite extreme. Even more so after installing the crossovers and tweeters.

    I am not familiar with your model speakers, so perhaps there is no comparison to what I found. Just some food for thought.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 451
    When I first got my 1C's, running them bone stock with an old 90 wpc Carver receiver, the soundstage twice as wide as the speakers were apart. Like @Viking64 said check all your connections. Deoxit is your friend on these vintage speakers.
    Home System:
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • TennManTennMan Posts: 994
    JasonCapa wrote: »
    I hear width in sounstage more in between the speakers with spurts on the outer sides of the speakers. Still not as much as i expected and I'm not getting any or much depth at all. I'm thinking it maybe my DAC his not cutting it.

    Something's not right. You should do the tests in section 4.9 (Quick Tests to Determine Proper Functioning of SDA Loudspeakers) in the The SDA Handbook. By Ray Smith. Post your results and maybe someone will be able to diagnose your problem.
    SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat · Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
    Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 595
    JasonCapa wrote: »
    I hear width in sounstage more in between the speakers with spurts on the outer sides of the speakers. Still not as much as i expected and I'm not getting any or much depth at all. I'm thinking it maybe my DAC his not cutting it.
    gmcman wrote: »
    What does the setup look like? Size of room, placement of speakers, are the speakers positioned properly, ie, facing forward (no toe) with adequate clearance on the sides?
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Photos would help us to help you immensely.

    Tom

    Jason, more questions, what are you trying to compare them too for depth? What was used in that setup? What was that room like? What is your source material?

    IMO I have heard non SDA speakers have better depth, but there was a very small 1 person sweet spot. The speakers were only about 4-5 feet apart, and the sweet spot fairly close in a larger room. IMO the polks have a little more forward sound stage than some speakers, but not as forward as say old Klipsch speakers.

    The room size often plays heavily into this. There needs to be enough space on the sides of the speakers, and space behind you. IMO the 1C's do better in a smaller room, and closer listening position than SDA's with the greater distance between the stereo and dimensional speaker. However I have not heard the CRS which people rave about in those situations.

    I haven't yet determined if the reduced depth of the SDA's is apparent or real. By apparent, I mean that the sound stage is wider given the visual spacing and distance from the speakers. Those cues can make you think the perceived room is smaller, with less depth, yet the audible sound stage is wider. The wider sound stage is more peripheral vision, and enhanced because the speakers and your position is closer to a conventional set up, yet depth of the sound stage is assumed to be the same as a conventional setup because that is more of your center of focus.

    I have struggled with depth with a conventional set up to. Often I find it is in the recording, or getting everything set up just right for that perfect sweet spot.
  • I've checked to make sure all the tweeters are working and drivers are working. I've done the interconnect cable check by keeping the interconnect plunged in while taking out the speaker cables one speaker at a time and they still get sound. I have the 6 feet apart and 2 feet from the walls. I have the a cabinet in between, but have pulled them out far from them. I just feel like something lacking a bit.
  • Wish there was a way to compare to someone else's setup.
  • TennManTennMan Posts: 994
    Perhaps you are expecting too much. I don't get the big soundstage some people have reported that wraps around the room. My speakers are 6 feet apart, 6'-4" from the side walls and 5-1/2" from the back walls. I sit about 14' from the speakers.

    I usually hear sounds that extend over to the plant in front of the window on good recordings - with the occasional sound coming a foot or so to the left of the plant. I have heard sounds that seem to come from behind me but that's not heard on many recordings.

    The soundstage is pretty much the same on each side. Centered voices seem to come from the TV and extend slightly deeper sometimes My CRS+ have a little wider soundstage but my 2Bs are a better sounding speaker in my room.

    I don't know for sure that my soundstage is typical but I think it probably is. Hope this helps give you an idea about what you should expect. (Or maybe I will get a lesson from other SDA owners on what I really should expect.) :)

    5sb0qlcf5s8e.jpg
    SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat · Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
    Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,244
    The opening to the left and right of the speakers is doing you no favors on the soundstage, IMHO. I have my 1.2TL's set up with 42 inches to the sidewalls and 6'8" from each other, and 4 and a half inches off the back wall. I sit 7 feet back from the front of the speakers and have 60 inches to the back wall behind me.

    My soundstage makes me feel front row center and sound is controlled and placed everywhere they should be. Anybody wanting to drop by and hear what SDA can do are more than welcome to come and hear it for themselves. I am in Los Angeles.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,213
    JasonCapa wrote: »
    I have the 6 feet apart and 2 feet from the walls.

    The setup for SDA's is critical. Parallel to the front wall, ideally the front of the cabinets to be parallel.

    2 feet out is too far, remove the cabinet and try them about 6-8" from the wall.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,244
    edited February 15
    The should also be a minimum of 36" from the sidewalls, and should be 4 to 6 inches from the back wall, with 6 feet between them.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 451
    Anybody wanting to drop by and hear what SDA can do are more than welcome to come and hear it for themselves. I am in Los Angeles.

    Cool! You have beer right?
    Home System:
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,903
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Anybody wanting to drop by and hear what SDA can do are more than welcome to come and hear it for themselves. I am in Los Angeles.

    Cool! You have beer right?

    LOL, it's BYOB
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    TennMan wrote: »
    Perhaps you are expecting too much. I don't get the big soundstage some people have reported that wraps around the room. My speakers are 6 feet apart, 6'-4" from the side walls and 5-1/2" from the back walls. I sit about 14' from the speakers.

    I usually hear sounds that extend over to the plant in front of the window on good recordings - with the occasional sound coming a foot or so to the left of the plant. I have heard sounds that seem to come from behind me but that's not heard on many recordings.

    The soundstage is pretty much the same on each side. Centered voices seem to come from the TV and extend slightly deeper sometimes My CRS+ have a little wider soundstage but my 2Bs are a better sounding speaker in my room.

    I don't know for sure that my soundstage is typical but I think it probably is. Hope this helps give you an idea about what you should expect. (Or maybe I will get a lesson from other SDA owners on what I really should expect.) :)

    5sb0qlcf5s8e.jpg

    I think you are hearing exactly what you should. Sound wrapping around the room is a room anomaly.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • sbb2112sbb2112 Posts: 68
    edited February 15
    Funny thing, i came up with the same thing with the jewel case but it works. My SRS 2’s I set the narrower way and the SRS’s the longer. May seem a little picky but the little extra reduced a lot of boominess with the bigger guys
    Main System

    Marantz AV8802A PrePro
    Marantz MM7025 Amp rear surrounds
    McIntosh MC7205 Amp center, ceiling and mid surrounds
    McIntosh MC300 Amp front mains
    Oppo 203 Bluray
    Polk SDA-SRS with VR3 monastery crossovers
    Polk FX1000 Mid surrounds
    Klipsch RP-440C Center channel
    Klipsch RP-15M Rear surrounds
    Bose 151 ceiling surrounds
    Polk PSW 650 sub
    5TB usb media storage disk
    Samsung 8500 curved screen 65" LED 4K

    Office System
    Mcintosh MX132 processor
    Oppo 103D Bluray
    Polk SDA-SRS 2
    Parasound HCA-1500A
    2TB usb media storage disk

    Polk CS400i center channel -in storage
  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,748
    It's all about the room...for all speakers, not just SDA.

    At least that is what I am learning over the last several years...
  • ^ Yup, I agree with Conradicles. Furthermore, don't let folks on here convince you it is necessary to spend thousands of dollars to have a good sounding stereo. Mine perfectly meets all of your criteria you listed, open, airy, huge sound stage, amazing imaging. My setup consists of 1c's and CRS+ on rotation approx 5 ft apart and 3.5ft from side walls. Sit about as far back or a littler further than they are wide. Spend some money on a decent external amp and you will be happy, guaranteed.

    For reference I have a 200 dollar Rotel I got from a local pawn shop. I love it, sounds great on the 1c's. Greater still on the CRS+. Using a 50 dollar tube headphone amp as a pre, blows me away every time I pop in a CD or record, even listening through youtube on my phone sounds amazing.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    ^ You don't know what you're missing ^
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • I might not, but I am sure not going to miss retiring for my audio habit.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,400
    Ok, so you're retired and choose not to spend more than hundreds on your gear. That's fine, but since you evidently have not owned gear costing in the thousands or tens of thousands I don't think you're in a position to advise someone on what they should spend on their gear.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • No, I am not retired. I plan on doing so. Did I ever advise him not to? I don't think so, if you read and comprehend what I said was, you don't necessarily need to spend thousands to get a quality system. Did I ever say you need don't need to spend thousands to get the best ever, no, I did not. Awfully presumptuous of you though.
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