Time to Upgrade My 2.3s

Rrusse11

So after too long, I finally bit the bullet and bought another Carver TFM 35. Wow!
I had no idea what I was missing. I've owned the pair for a couple years, and loved them.
I sprung for some better RCA interconnects and some 12ga speaker wire.
Time to rebuild the crossovers. Please note I'm not running anything like audiophile
equipment as sources. NAD preamp, an ADC 12band equalizer, a cheap Denon
CD player and a Kloss Model One radio. Lol, and Netflix sounds great through the
headphone jack.

A previous owner has ugraded the tweeters, I believe I have the SL3000s. I could obviously use the Sonicap? replaced or bridged. Driven hard the volume drops, only to come back when returned to "reasonable" levels.
Is there an ez check to tell if any work has been done to the crossovers? Needed for the tweeter upgrade?

DHS Speaker Services are within a half day's drive, and with a new grandbaby nearby,
it's a good excuse to head that way.
What should I be doing to them?
I've had a look at the Fortress crossovers, no doubt exceptional, but at $1400 a pair, definitely on the high end of the budget.

Advice on the bare essentials to over the top much appreciated. NB! Electrical expertise
is NOT my forte. I'd just like to have a sense of what level of replacement/upgrades
are available, and an idea of costs associated with those steps. Bang for the buck?

Cheers,
R*2

dkfreebird

Contact Dave through his dhs email and he will hook you up. He has different levels of upgrades and will help you in anyway he can. He is awesome to work with.He has done mine and countless others on here.

MrBuhl

+1 - Dave is your friend, and does quality work.

Rrusse11

Thanks gents. I've found his website, and I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the variety of options.

TNTsTunes

Rrusse11 wrote: »

So after too long, I finally bit the bullet and bought another Carver TFM 35. Wow!
I had no idea what I was missing. I've owned the pair for a couple years, and loved them.
I sprung for some better RCA interconnects and some 12ga speaker wire.
Time to rebuild the crossovers. Please note I'm not running anything like audiophile
equipment as sources. NAD preamp, an ADC 12band equalizer, a cheap Denon
CD player and a Kloss Model One radio. Lol, and Netflix sounds great through the
headphone jack.

A previous owner has ugraded the tweeters, I believe I have the SL3000s. I could obviously use the Sonicap? replaced or bridged. Driven hard the volume drops, only to come back when returned to "reasonable" levels.
Is there an ez check to tell if any work has been done to the crossovers? Needed for the tweeter upgrade?

DHS Speaker Services are within a half day's drive, and with a new grandbaby nearby,
it's a good excuse to head that way.
What should I be doing to them?
I've had a look at the Fortress crossovers, no doubt exceptional, but at $1400 a pair, definitely on the high end of the budget.

Advice on the bare essentials to over the top much appreciated. NB! Electrical expertise
is NOT my forte. I'd just like to have a sense of what level of replacement/upgrades
are available, and an idea of costs associated with those steps. Bang for the buck?

Cheers,
R*2

SL3000's are stock in 2.3tl's and not compatible with 2.3 crossovers.

Got any pics of your speakers?

Rrusse11

Tweeter conundrum;
As mentioned in my 1st post, I thought I had the SL3000, but on closer examination,
no foam ring, I'm thinking I have either the RD0194s, or RD0198s.
Judging from pics and dimensions, there is no appreciable external difference.
Nothing marked on the back, how can I tell which variant I have?
Cheers!

Rrusse11

And I should add that I'm running a pair, albeit mismatched, of 8" subwoofers.
A Klipch and an Infinity PS8, one per channel.

michaeljhsda2

the RD0194's positive and negative tabs are the same size whereas on the RD0198, the negative tab is larger than the positive.

Rrusse11

And I just checked, I have the RD0198s. Thanks michael, just downloaded the "SDA Handbook" and discovered the discerning factor on p.41.
Soooo, have my crossovers been worked to accommodate same? Hmmmmmm.
I'll have to pull them out and get some pics.
My drivers are definitely the 2.3s, I've got the "doughnut" bass top & bottom of the 4 speaker array.

The plot thickens!

Rrusse11

Incidentally, the connections to the tweeters are the right size for the different size
blades. Small for the red paint, large for the other.

F1nut

You've got the wrong tweeters and there is no way to make 2.3's into 2.3TL's without changing the drivers, crossovers and swapping the left and right cabinets.

michaeljhsda2

Interesting...the plot definitely thickens. Someone (not the manufacturer) must have removed the smaller negative connection and replaced it with a larger one to fit the RD0198 and as F1 mentioned, it's the wrong replacement. Unless someone did as F1 described above and converted them to TL's by swapping out a bunch of components.

Rrusse11

F1nut,
So I'd need 8 MW6510 s, and a pair of the BR2200-c crossovers.
Or, get 6 of the RD0194 tweeters.
I'll have to have a look at the crossovers and get some pics.
Either way, I want to get rid of the Polyswitches.

Rrusse11

So how much of a difference is there between the 2.3TLs and the earlier 2.3s sonically?

michaeljhsda2

I never heard the 2.3TL's but the 2.3's sound excellent.

TNTsTunes

Rrusse11 wrote: »

Incidentally, the connections to the tweeters are the right size for the different size
blades. Small for the red paint, large for the other.

2.3TL's have the tweeters wired backwards to correct phase shift. The negative wire goes to the positive terminal and the positive wire goes to the negative side.

TNTsTunes

Rrusse11 wrote: »

F1nut,
So I'd need 8 MW6510 s, and a pair of the BR2200-c crossovers.
Or, get 6 of the RD0194 tweeters.
I'll have to have a look at the crossovers and get some pics.
Either way, I want to get rid of the Polyswitches.

Dave can build either crossovers you'll need on stock or gimpod boards. I'm not sure if Polk has made more MW6510's, I bought most of the new/old stock they had left a few months ago. You should be able to sell your tweeter and buy the correct ones without too much of a loss, same goes for the stock drivers if you go that way.

Rrusse11

So I just pulled another tweeter, #3 on the Left, same same as #1 on the Right, RD0198.
Whatever I've got, the addition of the extra amp has them sounding MUCH better!

FestYboy

So wait, are you saying that you're running the 2.3s WITHOUT the SDA cable? Or bi-amped? Also, why the extra subs? I can't believe the 2.3s are weak in the bass department.

Rrusse11

Fest,

SDA cable connected. Amps are bridged, ie. mono, 1 per channel feeding a 2.3 and an
8" sub. Crossover on the subs circa 50hz, not much volume, but fill out the bottom
end. The RD0198s may be a bit bright, I've got the top frequencies dialed back a bit on the equalizer.
Correct? Dunno', but it's a rockin'!
{:o)

Having never heard any of the big Polks before, other than my own, unfortunately I have nothing to compare them with. So I'm operating completely subjectively.
Crossovers are most likely not operating "properly", but with little "audiophile"
experience I have nothing much to compare to. I do know I'm liking what I'm getting. I'm sure it could be improved, but it's currently blowing me away as sounding better than any home audio system I've ever heard.

And something that will be lost on most, I'm a blind man's son. I appreciate the power
of critical listening. Most people operate 80-90% visual input. At 65 I've got aging ears, but do my best to listen mindfully.

michaeljhsda2

Running them bridged mono will create big problems unless your SDA cable is an AI-1 cable. The problem should have occurred shortly after you started playing them. Does the SDA cable have a little box? If so, it's the AI-1 transformer from Polk and you're fine.

FestYboy

^ exactly. Unless you have the AI-1, stop using the SDA cable immediately. OR remove one of the amps from the equation.

pitdogg2

Uggg bridged amps and a EQ lots of noise introduced into the chain

I bet it is bright. Bridged amps most of the time do not like to see less than an 8 ohm load you are starting out with 6 and dropping some.

what are the amps in question?

Rrusse11

Thanks gents! Pulled the SDA cable. No apparent problems.
So the Carver TFM35 is a common ground amp, but running 2 in mono mode means they are no longer tied together for that "common ground"?
Found a pdf from Polk on how to make an AL-1 cable with the isolation transformer.

pitdogg2

Rrusse11 wrote: »

So the Carver TFM35 is a common ground amp, but running 2 in mono mode means they are no longer tied together for that "common ground"?

correct.

I'm wondering why it worked at all with out a squeal or any other detrimental noise to make them unbearable.

TNTsTunes

Rrusse11 wrote: »

Thanks gents! Pulled the SDA cable. No apparent problems.
So the Carver TFM35 is a common ground amp, but running 2 in mono mode means they are no longer tied together for that "common ground"?
Found a pdf from Polk on how to make an AL-1 cable with the isolation transformer.

Use one TFM35 to power both speakers with the interconnect in place. SDA's probably dig deeper then your subs do.

In you need extra bass use the other amp to power your subs.

One other thing lose the EQ. SDA'S sound great without any tone controls.

Yours may not though since they have the wrong tweeters in them. They need that to be straightened out.

Rrusse11

Pulling the cable hasn't made a difference. Time to start looking at what's happening inside. What other mods happened when the RD0198s were installed?

Pitdog,
I was very cautious with the volume after getting the amps set up. No surprises as
I gradually opened 'em up.

TNT,
Powered subs, so they're not sucking, or need, any power at all from the main amps.
Had the pair of 2.3s powered with one amp, it was nice, but now I'm wondering whether the SDA cable was ever doing anything. Again, the problem of never hearing any other examples, or what to expect.

On the EQ, sorry, it's a debate that goes on everywhere on the Internet. There's a reason all the audio engineers I've sat behind, have them. Same applies in any "home"
situation. Acoustics, and production values, are all over the place. Tweaking equalisation matters to me, rightly or wrongly.

Back to the "wrong" tweeters, may not be if the crossovers have been modded.

Thanks all! Just a babe in the woods here. Looks like I need a decent meter, and start learning how to use one.

The adventure continues!

F1nut

You are indeed a babe in the woods. Get rid of the EQ. Needed in the studio, not in the home.

It seems something was done to remove the SDA circuit in your speakers.

gmcman

Congrats on your 2.3's as well as the included adventure.

I won't go to deep into using an EQ, been there, but I will say that when I started listening to my first pair of SDA's, I removed all tonal controls from the chain.

Your room plays a MAJOR part in the sound reproduction. If you can post pics or a diagram that would be very helpful.

Your SDA's will continue to sound better with all your improvements and mods along the way, it makes you wonder where they stop improving they sound that good..

Not saying an EQ can't help, I know it can, sometimes you need to remove a peak or improve a null, but that generally happens with room treatments and speaker placement.

Looking forward to your progress.

Rrusse11

I'll avoid the EQ debate, it's endless.

But thanks for the input, I've clearly got a host of more pressing issues to figure out.

A. Crossovers, modified? If so, how? Which leads to B
B. Tweeters, replace perhaps?
C. SDA , disconnected? Cable upgrade with transformer? (Is this where "dreadnoughts" come in?)
D. Cabinets: seals, spikes, dynamat, binding posts.

My understanding is that I've got to pull the bass speaker to access the crossovers.
I'll get some pics, and make sure I label all wires before removal.

Cheers!
R*2

RandyCroissant

The bass speaker is actually a passive radiator or PR, on most SDAs the crossover is directly behind it. Examine it closely and compare it to the schematics as well as pictures that you google. It is possible some former owner switched things around.