Thinking about going tubes

124

Comments

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    Gotta have a wheel for backup power supply....pay not attention to that squeaky wheel either. :)
    ERA D-5
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    Sony 4k bdp
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    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
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    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 653
    edited January 24
    I think I’m gonna pick up a set of these rca tubes to start off with. Have heard they work well with the Backert and should fair well with the focal

    https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/rca-black-plate-5814wa-12au7-triple-mica
    2 Channel
    BlueSound Node 2 Streaming Tidal I Marantz SA8005 I Backert Labs Rhumba 1.1 I B&K ST125.2 I Focal Aria 926 I Wireworld Eclipse 7 IC's I Acoustic Zen Satori SC I Pangea AC14SE MkII/PS Audio AC-3 Power Cables

    Living Room HT
    Sony XBR65X930E I Marantz NR-1608 I Q Acoustics 2020i I Q Acoustics 3090c I FXI-A4's I DIY 15" Dayton SW

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    Looks like a great start to me.
    ERA D-5
    B&K 1403
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    SVS SB-2000 SUB
    Sony 4k bdp
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Schiit Saga and Freya worth checking out from a cost of entry standpoint.

    Hello everyone, been following this thread. I too am thinking about taking the plunge or just dipping my toes in.
    Anyone have any experience with the Schiit pre's??? Not a whole lot of in-depth reviews out there yet.

    Schitt Freya for 700 bucks??? Holy Schiit!!!
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 653
    I know there is a few on this board that have Freyas. Hopefully they will jump in, I thought for a brief second about trying one out but I haven’t heard the best about schiits sonic qualities.
    2 Channel
    BlueSound Node 2 Streaming Tidal I Marantz SA8005 I Backert Labs Rhumba 1.1 I B&K ST125.2 I Focal Aria 926 I Wireworld Eclipse 7 IC's I Acoustic Zen Satori SC I Pangea AC14SE MkII/PS Audio AC-3 Power Cables

    Living Room HT
    Sony XBR65X930E I Marantz NR-1608 I Q Acoustics 2020i I Q Acoustics 3090c I FXI-A4's I DIY 15" Dayton SW

  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 653
    Yea big surprise, Schiit doesn’t sound good lmao
    2 Channel
    BlueSound Node 2 Streaming Tidal I Marantz SA8005 I Backert Labs Rhumba 1.1 I B&K ST125.2 I Focal Aria 926 I Wireworld Eclipse 7 IC's I Acoustic Zen Satori SC I Pangea AC14SE MkII/PS Audio AC-3 Power Cables

    Living Room HT
    Sony XBR65X930E I Marantz NR-1608 I Q Acoustics 2020i I Q Acoustics 3090c I FXI-A4's I DIY 15" Dayton SW

  • Jim ShearerJim Shearer Posts: 340
    Well, I have a Saga pre that I use w/ my Dynakitparts ST-35 and Pass designed AmpCampAmps (class A mono-blocks). I think it sounds great! Now I did swap out the stock tube (not that it's all that bad) for a nice old Sylvania 6SN7-GTA, which improved the sound stage.

    Tell me where else you can get a pre that operates as a passive or a tube buffer w/ relay stepped attenuator, remote control, 5 inputs and 2 outputs that sounds great for $349?

    And if you haven't heard it, then you don't know! Of course, if you have the bucks to play in the big leagues, I'm sure you can get better sound for $20K. Personally, I can't afford to go there.

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    lol....lots of real estate there Jim....between 350 bucks and 20k. :)
    ERA D-5
    B&K 1403
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    SVS SB-2000 SUB
    Sony 4k bdp
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 1,474
    Nice Jim, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    I've just been using my Saga in passive mode with no tube installed, just to get a baseline idea of it's performance. I'm loving the accuracy of the relay-stepped volume control! Makes you never want to use a traditional volume pot again.
    Well, I have a Saga pre that I use w/ my Dynakitparts ST-35 and Pass designed AmpCampAmps (class A mono-blocks). I think it sounds great! Now I did swap out the stock tube (not that it's all that bad) for a nice old Sylvania 6SN7-GTA, which improved the sound stage.

    Tell me where else you can get a pre that operates as a passive or a tube buffer w/ relay stepped attenuator, remote control, 5 inputs and 2 outputs that sounds great for $349?

    And if you haven't heard it, then you don't know! Of course, if you have the bucks to play in the big leagues, I'm sure you can get better sound for $20K. Personally, I can't afford to go there.

    Cheers, Jim

    Alan_r wrote: »
    My passion is for the music, my hobby is how I listen to it.
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    Well, I have a Saga pre that I use w/ my Dynakitparts ST-35 and Pass designed AmpCampAmps (class A mono-blocks). I think it sounds great! Now I did swap out the stock tube (not that it's all that bad) for a nice old Sylvania 6SN7-GTA, which improved the sound stage.

    Tell me where else you can get a pre that operates as a passive or a tube buffer w/ relay stepped attenuator, remote control, 5 inputs and 2 outputs that sounds great for $349?

    And if you haven't heard it, then you don't know! Of course, if you have the bucks to play in the big leagues, I'm sure you can get better sound for $20K. Personally, I can't afford to go there.

    Cheers, Jim

    Ditto @clipdat on your thoughts. I read a lot of folks do indeed roll the tubes with better results. But what "tubie" or "tuber" not sure of the moniker, doesn't? If your gonna test the waters, seems like this would be the schiit.
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 1,474
    edited January 30
    I actually discarded the stock tube without trying it, after reading about how bad it was. Clearly they were just interested in including a tube to give it basic function. Hey they had to get to that $349 price somehow.

    I'd rather spend $30 on an entry level tube, even new production, versus using something that isn't balanced and probably has microphonics.
    verb wrote: »
    Ditto @clipdat on your thoughts. I read a lot of folks do indeed roll the tubes with better results. But what "tubie" or "tuber" not sure of the moniker, doesn't? If your gonna test the waters, seems like this would be the schiit.

    Alan_r wrote: »
    My passion is for the music, my hobby is how I listen to it.
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    I'm hoping some of our esteemed CP tubies will opine on the Schiit Freya. I have learned to respect their opinions and of course laugh at their jocularity. Come on @tonyb give us the schiit!
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 1,474
    edited January 30
    They Freya was originally on my radar, but I went for it's smaller cousin due to a few reasons.

    The Freya's 14db gain on the tube stage seemed like it would be too much for the quieter listening I tend to do. I think the Saga's 0db/unity gain approach is a better implementation.

    $350 price difference.

    4 6sn7 vs. 1 6sn7. Quite a bit more expensive to roll matched pairs/quads vs singles.
    verb wrote: »
    I'm hoping some of our esteemed CP tubies will opine on the Schiit Freya. I have learned to respect their opinions and of course laugh at their jocularity. Come on @tonyb give us the schiit!

    Alan_r wrote: »
    My passion is for the music, my hobby is how I listen to it.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 13,908
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: P3ESR, 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: CP-6311, Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S60, S55, S35, S30, S20, S15, RTA 15tl, Sonner Audio Allegro Unum
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Dayens Ampino, Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, AURALiC Altair, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    DSkip wrote: »
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.

    That makes sense. I like the idea of swapping tubes to experiment. A lot easier than desoldering/soldering caps, resisters, etc., on a SS pre.
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 16,104
    verb wrote: »
    I'm hoping some of our esteemed CP tubies will opine on the Schiit Freya. I have learned to respect their opinions and of course laugh at their jocularity. Come on @tonyb give us the schiit!

    nxpjzjp73yf0.png

    rjkup9tmqar6.png
    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    DSkip wrote: »
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.

    Probably right....but Joule's came with decent nos tubes in them.
    ERA D-5
    B&K 1403
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    SVS SB-2000 SUB
    Sony 4k bdp
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    Can't comment on the schiit Pre amps, never heard them myself. Their dacs though, did nothing for me.
    ERA D-5
    B&K 1403
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    SVS SB-2000 SUB
    Sony 4k bdp
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,874
    tonyb wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.

    Probably right....but Joule's came with decent nos tubes in them.

    Sometimes you have an ear and like the manufacturer/designer and can most always like what they produce

    I like Modwright

    Have spoken to Dan several times, and owned a few pieces of his gear. So far none have failed me when they got home.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 1,474
    I've repeatedly heard that their DACs (Bifrost specifically) are very clinical and sterile sounding and need 100+ hours to begin to sound "good", and even then, still very clinical and sterile.
    tonyb wrote: »
    Can't comment on the schiit Pre amps, never heard them myself. Their dacs though, did nothing for me.

    Alan_r wrote: »
    My passion is for the music, my hobby is how I listen to it.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 16,104
    edited January 31
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I've repeatedly heard that their DACs (Bifrost specifically) are very clinical and sterile sounding and need 100+ hours to begin to sound "good", and even then, still very clinical and sterile.

    Very clinical and sterile before break in; very clinical and sterile after break in... begging the question "what changes when they 'break in'?" ;)

    One is tempted to try one of them there Sagas, you know? :)
    Not quite cheap enough to just try on a lark, though.

    One expects to be getting a chance to try one of their little Mani phono preamps anon (one is pleased to report).
    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 1,474
    It's like you start out in the ER and then you get admitted and they give you a room.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Very clinical and sterile before break in; very clinical and sterile after break in... begging the question "what changes when they 'break in'?" ;)

    Alan_r wrote: »
    My passion is for the music, my hobby is how I listen to it.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 16,104
    Clipdat wrote: »
    It's like you start out in the ER and then you get admitted and they give you a room.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Very clinical and sterile before break in; very clinical and sterile after break in... begging the question "what changes when they 'break in'?" ;)



    ... and, and... they put you on an IV antibiotic drip!


    :)

    Nice analogy!
    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 149
    ... squirrel!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,359
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.

    Probably right....but Joule's came with decent nos tubes in them.

    Sometimes you have an ear and like the manufacturer/designer and can most always like what they produce

    I like Modwright

    Have spoken to Dan several times, and owned a few pieces of his gear. So far none have failed me when they got home.

    Modwright is a company that, in my opinion, gets overlooked. Dan looks to do fantastic work and his mods on other brand pieces are nothing to sneeze at. He has a following for a reason.

    Just thinking....we should put together a list of great companies to deal with and the great people behind the curtain. People just stepping up their game have no idea of all these companies or where to go. Especially considering the amount of Boutique brands out there these days.
    ERA D-5
    B&K 1403
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    SVS SB-2000 SUB
    Sony 4k bdp
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
    Wireworld eclipse 7 Ic's
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 1,521
    tonyb wrote: »
    Boutique brands out there these days.

    If you place a Halloween tablecloth on a teak table, would that be considered.....BOO TEAK?

    nxv9gi6egedi.jpg
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    tonyb wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    No tube amp manufacturer should invest in expensive tubes for the base amp. Some will offer upgrade paths which is a plus but to force customers to spend dough on a tube they may not even want.

    Probably right....but Joule's came with decent nos tubes in them.

    Sometimes you have an ear and like the manufacturer/designer and can most always like what they produce

    I like Modwright

    Have spoken to Dan several times, and owned a few pieces of his gear. So far none have failed me when they got home.

    Modwright is a company that, in my opinion, gets overlooked. Dan looks to do fantastic work and his mods on other brand pieces are nothing to sneeze at. He has a following for a reason.

    Just thinking....we should put together a list of great companies to deal with and the great people behind the curtain. People just stepping up their game have no idea of all these companies or where to go. Especially considering the amount of Boutique brands out there these days.

    GREAT IDEA!
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 1,521
    verb wrote: »
    GREAT IDEA!
    HEY YOU!!!! STOP YELLING!!!!
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    GREAT IDEA!
    HEY YOU!!!! STOP YELLING!!!!

    great idea.
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
  • verbverb Posts: 807
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    GREAT IDEA!
    HEY YOU!!!! STOP YELLING!!!!
    :)
    2CH: Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Carver TFM35x Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's
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