polk audio sda 2.3 upgrade

Hi ,I bought a pair of 2.3 s about two years ago rebuilt the cross-overs using sonicaps , solens , and audiophile grade resistors .I replaced all 6 tweeters with the 194 s . I stayed to original design and the speakers sound very , very good. now I am wondering if the sound would be that much better if I change the tweeters to the 198 s . is it worth it ?

Comments

  • these are not the TL models
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,100
    No. It's more than just changing the Tweeters. The 2.3tls, which take the 198s, have completely different crossovers, and driver compliments. Enjoy your 2.3s as they are, the 194s are great tweeters.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • thanks . they are amazing speakers. they do everything well .the sound stage and imaging is magical ! I became curious about the tls because I hear they sound even better .that's hard for me to imagine so I was going to change tweeters to get that better sound .still , I don't want to get deep into re-engineering
  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    Jesse,
    Bit late to this thread, but I have a pair of the "standard" 2.3s with 198s installed, some previous owner.
    They sound great, but then I've not heard a TL version, or a 2.3 with the recommended 194s.
    westmassguy,
    I know the standard opinion is that the TL crossover is "completely different", but I've been looking at just the tweeter circuit. To this uneducated perusal, there's not a whole lot of difference between the 2 versions. I realise the impedance between the two versions is 6 ohms for the 194, 8 ohms for the 198. But from what I can gather,
    the basic design is very similar.
    Thoughts?
    Granted, the drivers are changed on the TL versions, but the tweeter layout doesn't look, at least to me trying to read the schematics, all that different.
    Cheers,
    R*2
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,100
    It's different enough. The 194s and 198s have different impedance and frequency response. The 194s have a relatively flat response, while the 198's response drops as the frequency increases. A contour circuit is needed on single tweeter models like the CRS+/2B and all the Monitors. The more elaborate crossovers, with multiple tweeters required even more tweaking to get the progressive point source right. Don't let small changes in resistor, inductor, capacitor values fool you. A tremendous amount of re-design work, computer modeling, and extensive listening tests were done by some pretty smart fellas back in the day
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,221
    edited February 19
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    Jesse,
    Bit late to this thread, but I have a pair of the "standard" 2.3s with 198s installed, some previous owner.
    They sound great, but then I've not heard a TL version, or a 2.3 with the recommended 194s.
    westmassguy,
    I know the standard opinion is that the TL crossover is "completely different", but I've been looking at just the tweeter circuit. To this uneducated perusal, there's not a whole lot of difference between the 2 versions. I realise the impedance between the two versions is 6 ohms for the 194, 8 ohms for the 198. But from what I can gather,
    the basic design is very similar.
    Thoughts?
    Granted, the drivers are changed on the TL versions, but the tweeter layout doesn't look, at least to me trying to read the schematics, all that different.
    Cheers,
    R*2

    The circuit is massively different. Get the proper tweeters for your speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    It's different enough. The 194s and 198s have different impedance and frequency response. The 194s have a relatively flat response, while the 198's response drops as the frequency increases. A contour circuit is needed on single tweeter models like the CRS+/2B and all the Monitors. The more elaborate crossovers, with multiple tweeters required even more tweaking to get the progressive point source right. Don't let small changes in resistor, inductor, capacitor values fool you. A tremendous amount of re-design work, computer modeling, and extensive listening tests were done by some pretty smart fellas back in the day

    Dave,

    Thanks for the specifics and detail. The speakers sound good now, but what do I know, I haven't heard either of the rebuilt 2.3 versions as a comparison.

    Ok, then the next question is when I get you to rebuild my crossovers, how difficult or more expensive, is it to do just the tweeter circuit for the "TL" version, and do the driver circuits as "standard" 2.3? I don't particularly want to change all the drivers out and do a complete TL conversion. Or should the entire crossover circuit be regarded as a complete integrated unit? Ie., you can't tweak just the tweeter circuit without effecting the whole speaker. (I suspect I just answered my own question?)

    Just trying to work with what I've got, 6 of the 194s would be ~ $350. Granted I should be able to get some return on my existing 198s.

    Cheers!

    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
  • la2vegasla2vegas Posts: 2,745
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    It's different enough. The 194s and 198s have different impedance and frequency response. The 194s have a relatively flat response, while the 198's response drops as the frequency increases. A contour circuit is needed on single tweeter models like the CRS+/2B and all the Monitors. The more elaborate crossovers, with multiple tweeters required even more tweaking to get the progressive point source right. Don't let small changes in resistor, inductor, capacitor values fool you. A tremendous amount of re-design work, computer modeling, and extensive listening tests were done by some pretty smart fellas back in the day

    Dave,

    Thanks for the specifics and detail. The speakers sound good now, but what do I know, I haven't heard either of the rebuilt 2.3 versions as a comparison.

    Ok, then the next question is when I get you to rebuild my crossovers, how difficult or more expensive, is it to do just the tweeter circuit for the "TL" version, and do the driver circuits as "standard" 2.3? I don't particularly want to change all the drivers out and do a complete TL conversion. Or should the entire crossover circuit be regarded as a complete integrated unit? Ie., you can't tweak just the tweeter circuit without effecting the whole speaker. (I suspect I just answered my own question?)

    Just trying to work with what I've got, 6 of the 194s would be ~ $350. Granted I should be able to get some return on my existing 198s.

    Cheers!

    If and when you reach 100 posts put me in line for the 198's. :D
    2.3TL, 3.1TL, SDA 2B, SDA II, 7B, 7C, 7 series 2, 10B, 5JR+, 5JR, 5A, 4.5, 4, RTA 11T X2 pairs, RTA 8T, LSI9, LSI7, RTI A7, RTI A3, CSI A4, CSI A6, F/XI A4, RTI4. That's all for now.
  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    "The circuit is massively different. Get the proper tweeters for your speakers. [/quote]

    F1nut,
    You keep sayin' this, lol, keep up the repition, it might get through in the end. {:o)
    You guys were certainly right about the Hnuts, and dynamatting the speakers.
    Cheers!
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,100
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    It's different enough. The 194s and 198s have different impedance and frequency response. The 194s have a relatively flat response, while the 198's response drops as the frequency increases. A contour circuit is needed on single tweeter models like the CRS+/2B and all the Monitors. The more elaborate crossovers, with multiple tweeters required even more tweaking to get the progressive point source right. Don't let small changes in resistor, inductor, capacitor values fool you. A tremendous amount of re-design work, computer modeling, and extensive listening tests were done by some pretty smart fellas back in the day

    Dave,

    Thanks for the specifics and detail. The speakers sound good now, but what do I know, I haven't heard either of the rebuilt 2.3 versions as a comparison.

    Ok, then the next question is when I get you to rebuild my crossovers, how difficult or more expensive, is it to do just the tweeter circuit for the "TL" version, and do the driver circuits as "standard" 2.3? I don't particularly want to change all the drivers out and do a complete TL conversion. Or should the entire crossover circuit be regarded as a complete integrated unit? Ie., you can't tweak just the tweeter circuit without effecting the whole speaker. (I suspect I just answered my own question?)

    Just trying to work with what I've got, 6 of the 194s would be ~ $350. Granted I should be able to get some return on my existing 198s.

    Cheers!

    I strongly urge you not to consider a "frankenpolk". The engineering work has already been done. Nothing wrong with 2.3s. Undo all that was done incorrectly, then do right.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    "I strongly urge you not to consider a "frankenpolk". The engineering work has already been done. Nothing wrong with 2.3s. Undo all that was done incorrectly, then do right."

    Dave,
    I have to agree with the above.
    I may have it wrong, mea culpa! I went with the pics in the "SDA Handbook", with no part #s on the tweeters themselves, I think I've been fooled by the different male spades on the tweeter. Just checked with MidwestSpeakers pics of the "SL2000/0194" and their Ebay listing,
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-OEM-RD0194-1-SL2000-1-Dome-Tweeter-for-SDA-RTA-Monitor-Series-NEW/152289478390?epid=524010369&hash=item23752906f6:g:y0UAAOSwn7JYCleb
    and they look identical to what I've got. One small, one medium connector stud.
    I'll go grab a multimeter, my Harbor Freight cheapie is giving me no joy on testing the resistance.
    Looks like the 0194 should be around 8 ohms, and judging by the various, at times conflicting, pics of the backs, may be the only way to tell definitively what lurks inside the dome.
    Thanks for the input!
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,100
    The 194 has two small .125 tabs. the 198 has a .125 on the + and .205 on the -
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,570
    edited February 19
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    "I strongly urge you not to consider a "frankenpolk". The engineering work has already been done. Nothing wrong with 2.3s. Undo all that was done incorrectly, then do right."

    Dave,
    I have to agree with the above.
    I may have it wrong, mea culpa! I went with the pics in the "SDA Handbook", with no part #s on the tweeters themselves, I think I've been fooled by the different male spades on the tweeter. Just checked with MidwestSpeakers pics of the "SL2000/0194" and their Ebay listing,
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-OEM-RD0194-1-SL2000-1-Dome-Tweeter-for-SDA-RTA-Monitor-Series-NEW/152289478390?epid=524010369&hash=item23752906f6:g:y0UAAOSwn7JYCleb
    and they look identical to what I've got. One small, one medium connector stud.
    I'll go grab a multimeter, my Harbor Freight cheapie is giving me no joy on testing the resistance.
    Looks like the 0194 should be around 8 ohms, and judging by the various, at times conflicting, pics of the backs, may be the only way to tell definitively what lurks inside the dome.
    Thanks for the input!

    They have a RDO-198 in the B.I. N. ad! INSTEAD of the correct RDO-194

    Listen to Dave and F1 you will learn much.
  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    "They have a RDO-198 in the B.I. N. ad! INSTEAD of the correct RDO-194"

    That did occur to me, after dinner I'll get a better multimeter, gonna' be the only way to tell I think.
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,570
    I'm confused? I looked at the ebay ad it is 100% the wrong tweeter in the ad.
    There is no confusion if both connectors are the same size 194. Two different sizes 198 no multimeter needed.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,221
    Yep, the one in the eBay ad is a RD0198.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Rrusse11Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    Well gents, the results are in! I definitely have the RD0198, the Re spec is 5.5.
    Whatever snafu occurred with the Ebay listing had me cornfused, but I now have
    a multimeter that works.

    Sigh,,,,,, looks like a set 6 194s are needed.

    C'est la vie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
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