6sn7 single/individual tubes

Looking for single/individual 6sn7 tubes. Post or PM me and let me know what you Got! Thanks!
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Comments

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    what are you using it in?
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Schiit Saga preamp
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    what are you using it in?

    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    Let me look around see what I have. All mine are pairs so you take two if I come up with something? One odd will do me no good.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    edited December 2017
    I might have some odd ones (literally, I mean) that could be of interest. They're used, not new, but I would test (on an emissions tester and use test) before wasting someone else's time with them! :)

    If I do (still) have some, one or two is/are yours for the cost of shipping.

    In full disclosure, while I am still pretty sure there are a bunch of used 6SN7s floatin' around here -- the last time I put a pair together for someone, I had to work at it :(

    I will report back, either way -- tomorrow most likely.

    Typical kinda stuff gatherin' dust bunnies in the basement here...

    35971014590_93823c0db7_b.jpgDSC_9018 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Yeah, that makes sense. I would take a pair, depending on what you have and the price.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Let me look around see what I have. All mine are pairs so you take two if I come up with something? One odd will do me no good.

    Thanks so much for the offer to send one or two as long as I cover the cost of shipping. Very generous of you, and I sincerely appreciate that.

    Let me know if you found any :)
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I might have some odd ones (literally, I mean) that could be of interest. They're used, not new, but I would test (on an emissions tester and use test) before wasting someone else's time with them! :)

    If I do (still) have some, one or two is/are yours for the cost of shipping.

    Got Dayens?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    I didn't get downstairs (at least yet) -- my unreliability is kind of legendary :p
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    All good, no rush. The preamp doesn't arrive until Wednesday anyway.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I didn't get downstairs (at least yet) -- my unreliability is kind of legendary :p

    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    What does the pre amp suggest? If it is for 6sn7gtb might burn through 6sn7gt fast. Just curious.
    I have some CBS/Hytron pair. The other I'd look for on eBay is 6BL7 or 6BX7 both are good and can be used in 6sn7 substitute.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Not entirely sure on some of what you just said, as this is my first piece of tube gear, but I found this information:

    "Tube matching: "You'll want matched sections/triodes on Saga"

    "The good news is that the rolling options are rather more limited (6SN7 and 6SL7 types only, including the Russian 6N8C and 6N9C). Best to stick to 6SN7 only for Saga, unless you want more distortion—the hybrid part of its tube output stage is transconductance-matched to the 6SN7. 6SL7s will work fine, but they'll have measurably more distortion."

    So it seems like any designation of "6sn7" will work, and that the numbers/letters after that are OK to experiment with.

    Not sure about 6BL7 or 6BX7.

    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    What does the pre amp suggest? If it is for 6sn7gtb might burn through 6sn7gt fast. Just curious.
    I have some CBS/Hytron pair. The other I'd look for on eBay is 6BL7 or 6BX7 both are good and can be used in 6sn7 substitute.

    Got Dayens?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    edited December 2017
    The 6BL7 and 6BX7 are generally and more or less interchangeable with the 6SN7.
    :)

    The transconductance (mu) is similar (I think - I'll check!); you will want to make
    sure that the filament current is very close to the 6SN7 (less is OK, more may not be).

    You'll want - sooner or later - to get conversant with the basic "specs" for audio vacuum tubes. The 6SN7, as you probably know, is basically two triodes (the simplest amplifier tube topology) in one bottle. The two triode sections are operationally identical .

    Some dual triode tubes have dissimilar triode sections, and there
    are multifunctional tubes with two and even three different flavors of operating sections in them. The late-tube-era "Compactrons" packed the most function into the smallest real estate (to save space and money at the very end of the "tube age" for consumer electronics).

    Meanwhile, you should pick up a receiving tube manual (or two, or more!) from Pete Millett's wonderful site: www.tubebooks.org :)

    Here's a good one (They're all good, but different vintages, of course, have different tubes in 'em): http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/RC19.pdf

    RC-19 from 1959

    You might want a more modern one, too: RC-30 was the last one from RCA (1975):
    http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/RC30.pdf

    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    edited December 2017
    Good 6SN7 info from Brent Jesse:
    http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

    another really handy resource is TDSL (the "Tube DataSheet Locator") from Duncan Amps.

    http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php

    The 6SN7 is a really interesting tube, with roots back to the very early "small signal" (as opposed to power amplifier) triodes!

    2itgdc845rvr.png
    http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2014/02/tube-of-month-6sn7.html

    http://www.hifi-tunes.com/the-evolution-of-a-constant-glow-in-high-fidelity/
    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/

    http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt

    From the link above:
    ... As time went by, the demand for lower cost tubes resulted in methods
    to reduce the cost of the tubes. Particularly for TV and radio tubes
    where cost was a critical aspect of the designs. Lower cost tubes were
    designed using more automation and less expensive components. For many
    applications, the reduced cost tubes were perfectly adequate.
    6BC8 (35x), 6BK7 (40x), 6BQ7 (35x), 6BS8 (36x), 6BZ7 (36x), 6BZ8 (36x)
    and 6EU7 (100x).
    The numbers refer to "amplification factors" (the 6SN7's is "20x", for comparison).
    This is related to the "transconductance" of each triode section, but they're not exactly the same quantity (and that's about all I can tell you about that!). :p

    All of the above twin triode tubes should have the same physical arrangement of its internal elements to the 8 pins in the octal base. The base configuration for these tubes is "8BD". At the coarsest level ("pinout", as it is called) these tubes are interchangeable.

    Is this helpful or just confusing? If the latter -- I'll stop! :)
    Post edited by mhardy6647 on
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    edited December 2017
    Yes Brent Jesse turned me onto the 6bxbl7 tubes as the best substitute for 6sn7. The 5692's are also but god awful expensive and according to the manuals and Brent not as good a substitute as the 6blbx7 tubes. I find them (6bxbl7) much better sounding in my tube buffer. The difference in the 6sn7 gt to the 6sn7gtb is current to one section of the tube. Later tubes were built for higher current. IIRC
    So earlier tubes the life is shorter in gtb topologies from what i have read. Makes really note a ton of difference they are really plentiful. Stay away from most Chinese and most Russian. American tubes from the 50's and earlier are generally regaded as the best. I personally really like most of the Sylvania, tung sol i have had. GE, Raytheon and RCA are ok you'll find a flavor you like
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    edited December 2017
    OK, I lied :(
    One more thing. I looked up the 6SN7, 6BX7 and 6BL7 on various resources via TDSL. Here's what I came up with (FWIW). Not much info on the 6BX7 :(

    eq9qxqzubfho.png

    It appears that the filament of the latter two tubes requires more than twice the current of that of a 6SN7. That may be a problem for the power supply.
    The amplification factors are different. Less amplification = less gain (in a preamp).
    Also, the transconductance values are indeed different.

    I note that the two triode sections of the 6SN7 are not identical in transconductance (per RCA handbook).

    db394de7b4d0e84d98d58498e8ddcfafd2af21fe9e8745b2c07abc3027351f85.jpg
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Thanks so much for all the info, appreciate it! It's nice to know what my potential options are.

    I think for the beginning I'll probably stick to the "vanilla" 6sn7 and it's readily available varieties.

    I already ordered these two:

    https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/early-russian-6h8c-6sn7?variant=21829016965

    https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/tung-sol-6sn7gtb?variant=21830453701
    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    edited December 2017
    Let us know how those work for you. Those are Tung Sol in name only. Original Tung Sol tubes are much better tubes. For the most part there is horrible quality control for Russian tubes its about quantity for them. The Chinese even counterfeit their own tubes so that is a concern there.
    For older Russian look for the OTK and Voskhod those are known as the better built older tubes.
    Foton and Novosibirsk are also well known for desent tubes. The names and factories I listed all were military for ICBM production held to the tightest tolerances for that reason.

    For the record I do not remember ever seeing gear that could take 6sn7 and 6sl7 tubes, but the manufacturer does state there will be more distortion while using them so for that reason alone I'd stear clear of them. They are a fine tube if your gear is built for them.
    Post edited by pitdogg2 on
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    ...

    For the record I do not remember ever seeing gear that could take 6sn7 and 6sl7 tubes, but the manufacturer does state there will be more distortion while using them so for that reason alone I'd steer clear of them. They are a fine tube if your gear is built for them.

    Oh, it's perfectly possible to accommodate both depending upon the circuit design. Of course, that doesn't mean it's a good idea in the present case (I think the Saga is one of them Schiit things, ain't it?).

    But, as an example, the JE Labs Simple 2A3 amp can use pretty much any 8BD base
    tube for its voltage amp. It's designed for the high-gain 6SL7 but sounds glorious with a lower-gain tube IMO. The amount of drive is reduced, though -- and, as I mentioned above, the filament current is probably worth paying attention to when substituting, but there's some flexibility there, in many (not all) cases.

    We're all lucky that these tubes were so widely and broadly used in the olden days -- the 6SN7,e.g., was used in (fairly) early TVs in droves -- so there are still plenty of 'em floatin' around.

    I would echo pitdogg's comment on the Tung-Sol in name only current production tubes. They're probably not utter junk, but I really bristle at the (perfectly legal but still tasteless, if not misleading) application of classic brand names to perfectly pedestrian tubes. :|
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Will certainly let you know how they sound. I didn't want to go for the super expensive NOS tubes like the Sylvania black plate or the 5692s straight out of the gate. Partially because I don't know what tube sound signature I'm going to like, and partially because they are pricey $120+ each.

    I was aware that the Tung Sols aren't NOS, but just figure they would give them a shot anyway. From what I've read they require a decent amount of burn in time.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Let us know how those work for you. Those are Tung Sol in name only. Original Tung Sol tubes are much better tubes. For the most part there is horrible quality control for Russian tubes its about quantity for them. The Chinese even counterfeit their own tubes so that is a concern there.
    For older Russian look for the OTK and Voskhod those are known as the better built older tubes.
    Foton and Novosibirsk are also well known for desent tubes. The names and factories I listed all were military for ICBM production held to the tightest tolerances for that reason.

    Yeah, I agree. There's been a trend like this in other areas where people purchase an old company that's been around forever and try to piggyback on their laurels while releasing an inferior product.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I would echo pitdogg's comment on the Tung-Sol in name only current production tubes. They're probably not utter junk, but I really bristle at the (perfectly legal but still tasteless, if not misleading) application of classic brand names to perfectly pedestrian tubes. :|

    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    edited December 2017
    There is many NOS tubes that are less than $40 a pair. Yes the 5692 have jumped dramatically in the last few years. I was lucky to get a pair for less than $100 several years.
    I have a pair of CBS/Hytrons I'll ship for the cost of shipping.
    Pm me and let me know.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    What?! You just made my Christmas man! PM incoming! :D
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    There is many NOS tubes that are less than $40 a pair. Yes the 5692 have jumped dramatically in the last few years. I was lucky to get a pair for less than $100 several years.
    I have a pair of CBS/Hytrons I'll ship for the cost of shipping.
    Pm me and let me know.

    Got Dayens?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,564
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    What does the pre amp suggest? If it is for 6sn7gtb might burn through 6sn7gt fast. Just curious.
    I have some CBS/Hytron pair.

    Holy cow i was just reminding you about this. No way would i part out 5692 for the cost of shipping. That eggnog you're drinking is stout........

    Sorry Drew i didnt mean to mislead you

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    LOL, I quit drinking! I was sober!

    I guess I just misread/misunderstood the type of tube. Regardless, I'm still super excited to check them out and appreciate your generosity :)
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    What does the pre amp suggest? If it is for 6sn7gtb might burn through 6sn7gt fast. Just curious.
    I have some CBS/Hytron pair.

    Holy cow i was just reminding you about this. No way would i part out 5692 for the cost of shipping. That eggnog you're drinking is stout........

    Sorry Drew i didnt mean to mislead you

    Got Dayens?
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 4,966
    sent ya a PM Drew :) got some Silverstone/Sylvania 6SN7's also.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    heh -- 5692. that's what the "Simple 2A3" is rockin' as I type this. I forgot :/


    13337579533_1651ee9dd5_b.jpgWesties closeup by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I don't know that they sound better than anything else that's been in there -- but they sure do look nice.

    I don't even know quite exactly where these came from! Probably Gary Kaufman (speaking of enablers) :)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    First RCA cables and now tubes? I seriously owe you one.
    voltz wrote: »
    sent ya a PM Drew :) got some Silverstone/Sylvania 6SN7's also.

    Got Dayens?
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    First tubes have arrived even before the preamp haha.
    4hzvh8mzrg5d.jpg
    7kbhxkgml5oe.jpg
    Got Dayens?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    And I still haven't managed to drag my but-t downstairs & dig through the plinkers! :(
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    All good man, no rush! As you can I see I have these two, and the stock tube that comes with the Saga to play with! :)
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    And I still haven't managed to drag my but-t downstairs & dig through the plinkers! :(

    Got Dayens?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,768
    I wouldn't roll tubes until the stock one has a few hundred hours on it and the preamp has had a signal for as many hours. I've tried rolling in a few tubes in the MastersounD amps and I don't like it as much as the Chinese tubes they use honestly.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,518
    Good to know, thanks Skip. One of the reasons I got the other tubes ready to go is because I've read that the stock tube that Schiit includes isn't the best quality and some considered it to be a weak point of the unit.

    Getting some time on the unit before making harsh judgement is definitely good advice though. I could even not install a tube and run it solely in passive mode just to get several hours of break in on it.
    DSkip wrote: »
    I wouldn't roll tubes until the stock one has a few hundred hours on it and the preamp has had a signal for as many hours. I've tried rolling in a few tubes in the MastersounD amps and I don't like it as much as the Chinese tubes they use honestly.

    Got Dayens?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,753
    That Soviet-era 6H8C is an intriguing tube with which I am not terribly familiar.

    :)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
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