Carver TFM35x vs M1.0t to run my SDA's

Hello Everyone - I'm still a NB to this forum but I'd figured why not I'm gonna jump in. I've been running my M1.0t with my 2A's for a while. No mod's on the 2A's yet, but after spending some time on this forum the bug has bit me !!!

I also recently acquired a pair of 1C's that I started to work on. New tweeters thus far (eventually full monty) but mainly cabinet repair, including endcap replacements. I was delighted to see so many threads on cabinet repair and customization.

I'm looking at the TFM35x as an upgrade to my M1.0t - Thoughts?
2CH: Polk SDA 1C's, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
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Comments

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 17,429
    TFM 35 all day long. I don’t believe the other will work anyway as it is not common ground.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,618
    TFM 35 all day long. I don’t believe the other will work anyway as it is not common ground.

    Agree
  • SchurkeySchurkey Posts: 1,747
    TFM 35 all day long. I don’t believe the other will work anyway as it is not common ground.
    Early M1.0s cannot be made common-ground because one channel is inverted to lessen bass demands on the power supply (and to make it very easy to bridge.)

    Later M1.0s are common-ground until they're bridged.

    The M1.0t is new enough to be common-ground.

    There are photos on the internet that I'm too lazy to find and post, showing the difference in the back panels of the early, inverted-channel M1.0, and the later, non-inverted M1.0.

    For the record, the M500 (all versions) also has an inverted channel and cannot be made common-ground
  • verbverb Posts: 2,360
    You are correct - I did confirm that my M1.0t's are in fact common ground.
    2CH: Polk SDA 1C's, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
  • The 1.0 and TFM are different designs. Both are good. By virtue of the TFM being newer, you may get better sound out of it as the components degrade with usage and over time (which is why everyone here preaches rebuilding the crossovers). Same can be done with amps etc. I love the sound that Carver power and Polk speakers make but if you are serious about sound quality at a budget, get your 1.0 rebuilt by Hi-Tech Audio in Stevenson, WA. He is one of the few "Carver certified tech's" still in business. Unfortunately the true artists of restoration are in high demand and you may have to wait 3-6 months for it to get back to you. You will not be disappointed though.
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • verbverb Posts: 2,360
    Thanks guys for your comments. I just picked up a minty TFM35x with original box and manual. Can't wait to hook em up !!!

    Special thanks to Audioluvr about the Carver service center. I'll keep them bookmarked to eventually get this old dog M1.0t serviced and upgraded !!!
    2CH: Polk SDA 1C's, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
  • SchurkeySchurkey Posts: 1,747
    Consider having the M1.0t upgraded to "Mark II" specs. Add "Option 002" for even greater power.

    http://carvermk2.com/m10tmkII/m10tmkII.htm

    This is probably NOT something done by Hi-Tech Audio.

    I suggest contacting
    [email protected]
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 17,429
    I would disregard this ^^^ and keep the amp at stock specification. Bob Carver never intended the amp to run in such a manner. There are differing opinions on this mod, And I mean no disrespect to Schurkey, but even Mr Carver does not care for the mod, as it puts too much strain on the transformer.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • Agree with nooshinjohn. The older Carvers are not noted for having robust power supplies. Adding any more stress is inviting disaster imo. That being said I found my old tfm 45 to be a very good match up for my 2.3s. It had an almost scary sounding transformer hum only at turn on but other than that it was a good performer even though I thought it was underbuilt for a 375 wpc amp.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 15,514
    I would disregard this ^^^ and keep the amp at stock specification. Bob Carver never intended the amp to run in such a manner. There are differing opinions on this mod, And I mean no disrespect to Schurkey, but even Mr Carver does not care for the mod, as it puts too much strain on the transformer.
    Agree with nooshinjohn. The older Carvers are not noted for having robust power supplies. Adding any more stress is inviting disaster imo. That being said I found my old tfm 45 to be a very good match up for my 2.3s. It had an almost scary sounding transformer hum only at turn on but other than that it was a good performer even though I thought it was underbuilt for a 375 wpc amp.

    I will be the dissenting voice. Bob Carver has personally reviewed and seen in action one of these and given it his approval. He agreed it wouldn't shorten amp lifespan or put it at risk of blowing. There is a couple posts on TheCarverSite with pics of Bob looking at a modded one and also the schematics and walkthrough you can get to do it yourself.

    Greg showed him one at Carverfest, discussed what they were doing and Bob said if that tech was around when he built them, he would have done the same.

    So its a Bobfather approved modification.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    The plot thickens.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 15,514
    edited December 2017
    Viking64 wrote: »
    The plot thickens.

    Not really. John didn't know that so its no biggie. There was also an issue with one person who was doing this MOD not doing it properly, resulting in a fair number of failures, so it got a bad rep (for good reasons).

    The folks that have worked with Greg or some of the other CarverSite techs (Dennis Miller, Mark, etc) have not had any failures, and from my limited understanding they have all cleaned up that persons mistakes (at no cost I might add) so those are all back up and running as well.

    @daddyjt and @trav0810 might have some more/better info than I do. Mark (daddyjt) is one of the techs who is part of the Carver team that does this mod.

    I had my M1.0t modded with the MKII and 002 mod as well as redoing the LED's in WHITE and it was STELLAR on my LSi 15's. When I get time, I will post the youtube video of it in action.

    IIRC @Sea bought that amp off me and has been enjoying it quite a lot and even got Bob to sign it at Carverfest...

    **edit** my videos were on Photobucket... so right now they are stuck in jail.... If there is interest, I will download them from Photobucket, upload to youtube and post them here....

    I need to download all my photobucket stuff anyway since they went a broke the internet/all my threads for the past 10 years... :angry:

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • In my case I'm going by personal experience with a tfm 45 and a significant transformer hum at turn on. Every single time that amp got turned on I would cringe as it would hum like a old 8' fluorescent fixture at start up. I have no idea if that's the norm with that series or not. Adding stress to what seems like an already over stressed power supply does not seem like a good idea to me. I've heard it mentioned before that Carver's power supply is the electrical outlet. Not very reassuring to say the least. But if Mr. Carver deems the mod ok then who am I to argue.
  • Buttered popcorn.... Yum!
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,618
    In my case I'm going by personal experience with a tfm 45 and a significant transformer hum at turn on. Every single time that amp got turned on I would cringe as it would hum like a old 8' fluorescent fixture at start up. I have no idea if that's the norm with that series or not. Adding stress to what seems like an already over stressed power supply does not seem like a good idea to me. I've heard it mentioned before that Carver's power supply is the electrical outlet. Not very reassuring to say the least. But if Mr. Carver deems the mod ok then who am I to argue.

    I have a TFM45 and yes they do hum at turn on. I have also had Rolland at Hi-Tech audio do all the upgrades(Bob Approved) on it plus a complete recap. I had much less hum after that and all but disappeared after an IEC outlet and much better power cord. Rolland also did some film bypass caps on some of the electrolytic caps makes a big difference in the sound signature. Much much smoother presentation.
    HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 17,429
    edited December 2017
    Viking64 wrote: »
    The plot thickens.

    Not really. John didn't know that so its no biggie. There was also an issue with one person who was doing this MOD not doing it properly, resulting in a fair number of failures, so it got a bad rep (for good reasons).

    I do know, and asked Bob about it when we were finishing my tube amps. The first thing he said was don’t do it. Bob is a good guy and would never tell anyone their baby is ugly, but he said taking the amps beyond their designed performance has proven to be very hard on the old power supplies, and he does not approve of it.

    I did not ask him about the mod when I saw him in September, but next time we speak, I will ask again.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 9,378
    I like bunnies.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I like bunnies.

    Stock bunnies or modded bunnies?
  • verbverb Posts: 2,360
    EndersShadow please post pics !!! I've done a lot of computer mods, overclocking, water cooling CPUs etc. All of my PCs are home built. I know going in that their life expectancy is shortened as a result of the tweaking, due to everything running much hotter.

    I'll let everyone know if I get the same hum at startup on my TFM35x.

    I have 2 M1.0ts, they are now backups, never modded an amp, but sounds like it sure would be fun !!! And, no I will not be water cooling it !!!
    2CH: Polk SDA 1C's, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 15,514
    Video's



    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 4,956
    edited December 2017
    I've always loved spectrum analyzer's dancing bars or lights. I had a lot of Radio Shack / Optimus LED equalizers. They were perdy ! :p

    I really loved that Harman Kardon amp I had. Something like an A23 or something. I had the set. I loved showing people what 10 watts would do with my home made by somebody DJ speakers. Each had twin 15's with a horn for the highs. That amp and speakers combo would kick you in the chest and almost take your breath away. God I hated selling that set !! :s

    I still love the Integra M504's HUGE green power meters. But mine stopped working on it's own and I've yet to find somebody that can fix it.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 606
    Viking64 wrote: »
    The plot thickens.

    Not really. John didn't know that so its no biggie. There was also an issue with one person who was doing this MOD not doing it properly, resulting in a fair number of failures, so it got a bad rep (for good reasons).

    ...he said taking the amps beyond their designed performance has proven to be very hard on the old power supplies, and he does not approve of it.

    With all due respect, this is false on multiple levels. First, in the mkII mod, the power supply is entirely rebuilt, with new rectifiers and commutators speced for the increased voltage. The capacitors in the power supply are upsized in both voltage and capacitance. The mag coil (not transformer) has no trouble whatsoever operating at the increased voltage.

    Second, if you look at the similarities between a modded 1.0t and TFM55, you’ll quickly see incontrovertible proof that the design is solid - there is speculation that the inspiration for the mkII draws heavily from the TFM55. Look at the innards of both, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

    And third, the track record of stability (as Dan points out) speaks for itself. Failures are vanishingly rare, and the vast majority of those are caused by people who have no business under the hood of an amp attempting to perform the mod. In fact, the individual of whom Dan speaks now sells mkII “kits” on EBay - a profoundly bad idea. I have well over $5,000 invested in test equipment, parts and bench supplies. This gear is necessary to perform the mkII mod (or any mod, for that matter) correctly. Further, all reputable techs (myself included) stand behind our work. He11, we even repair the botched jobs, usually for free, just to keep people from pointing to the “hatchet jobs” and being able to say “seeeeee...... I told you so...”

    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 17,429
    I will take your word for it, and apologize if my position offends. I really have no dog in this as I run tubes anyway, but just want to make certain the OP has enough info to make a well informed decision...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 606
    No offense taken - and I have no dog in the fight either, as I am booked out 6+ months, and not looking to take on new customers at the moment.

    FWIW, I have had a couple conversations with Skip about tubes, and may be giving them a shot in the coming year. To this point I’ve been strictly SS, and have no regrets - however, I am always looking to expand the horizons...:-)
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 4,956
    edited December 2017
    I just , by accident, found a pic./ad of my old Harman Kardon Amp. .

    Citation 22. It has dancing LEDs. I believe they start out green, yellow then red as you push the volume. I loved it ! I just saw this ad and there was 1 watching. With in minutes it went to 13 and I was not one of them. It's heavy and solid too.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARMAN-KARDON-Citation-Twenty-Two-22-Power-Amplifier-200-Watts-Per-Channel/253319160195?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=41376&meid=f1e0afae3c4a48fdac927e7719cb1fdf&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=391947933554&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

    And here is the Pre-Amp that I had with it. This one is filthy, mine was mint. Both of my pieces were mint. ;)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARMAN-KARDON-preamplifier-CITATION-TWENTY-ONE-21-Control-Preamp/202155277816?epid=665519130&hash=item2f1164bdf8:g:3TYAAOSwFuxZ0ks1
    Post edited by Tony M on
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • verbverb Posts: 2,360
    Tony M wrote: »
    I just , by accident, found a pic./ad of my old Harman Kardon Amp. .

    Citation 22. It has dancing LEDs. I believe they start out green, yellow then red as you push the volume. I loved it ! I just saw this ad and there was 1 watching. With in minutes it went to 13 and I was not one of them. It's heavy and solid too.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARMAN-KARDON-Citation-Twenty-Two-22-Power-Amplifier-200-Watts-Per-Channel/253319160195?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=41376&meid=f1e0afae3c4a48fdac927e7719cb1fdf&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=391947933554&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

    And here is the Pre-Amp that I had with it. This one is filthy, mine was mint. Both of my pieces were mint. ;)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARMAN-KARDON-preamplifier-CITATION-TWENTY-ONE-21-Control-Preamp/202155277816?epid=665519130&hash=item2f1164bdf8:g:3TYAAOSwFuxZ0ks1

    Cool stuff. My buddy in HS had a bunch of HK stuff. I remember listening to Pink Floyd dark side of the moon on his system. Blew me away! I got bit by the bug then, but just a poor HS student, had to work me way up.

    Started with a Pioneer Integrated, separate Tuner, TT (Technics Linear), rockin HPM40's! Those were the days!

    Never owned any HK stuff, but always liked them.
    2CH: Polk SDA 1C's, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, Rotel 1580 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Carver TX8 Tuner, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Cables
    Office: PC, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
  • Harmon Kardon used to be very good with solid product offerings from amps to turntables and everything in between. They are a great lesson in what happens to a brand when they don't keep pace with the competition. I purchased a fair amount of HK in the 80's & 90's but I wouldn't waste my money on it now.

    Polk SDA SRS 1
    Yamaha M-65 (2x, bi-amped)
    Pioneer Elite SC-99
    Oppo UDP-203
    Polk CS350 center
    Polk MC-60 4x Atmos
    Polk AB700 side surround
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 4,956
    I love the older HK gear.

    I've seen so many broken HK receivers from the last 10 years at yard sales it has turned me away from them.

    I warn friends and anybody I can about them. If you get one cheap or free, that's good.
    And if you buy new, I hope it breaks under warranty so the fix is somewhat cheap.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 4,956
    edited January 31
    @verb
    I've probably owned the stuff like you had except I had the HPM100's-200 watt version for a short time. Mint Cond. too. :s God, I wish I hadn't had to sell them!
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 381
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
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