New 1C Purchase Questions

Just picked up a pair of SDA 1C's They are bone stock and an aftermarket IC cable made of 12ga speaker wire and radio shack pin/blade ends. My first impression is they don't sound very good. Now I bought 2C's new in 88' and loved the hell out of them but these, I don't know, don't seem right. I am running them side by side with stock vintage Klipsch KG4's and the first thing I notice is at lower volumes the mids seem VERY distant like the singer is WAY in the background (if that makes sense). If I turn up the volume to a fairly loud level they seem more even with the treble and bass but that doesn't seem right to me. Thoughts?
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Comments

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    What are you driving them with? Are you driving both pairs at the same time?

    The KG4 is an extremely efficient speaker compared to the 1C.

    I take it your 2C was a typo.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 12
    Driven by a Carver MXR-130. I don't have the 2 B's any more. I think both the Klipsch and the Polks are rated as 94 db
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    The 1C's are 90dB. The KG4 at 94dB will sound considerably louder at the same volume level.

    Your receiver is not rated to handle less than an 8 ohm load. The 1C's are 6 ohm and dip lower. Honestly, that Carver is a pretty sad piece of gear.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 12
    This is my garage system. My regular system is the Carver M1.0 and C-2 preamp but the 1.0 is being updated so I will need to wait to hear them properly I guess.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,227
    1 C is small. Try for 44 DD on a small frame. Something like a 5'2" blonde bombshell with a different colored lowered end trim package.

    What is wrong with these folks???

    Do NOT run both speakers at the same time if you want to be offered serious advice from the folks who are "knowledgeable" with 2 channel.

    If you cannot run both of the aforementioned as advice? Your response will be nill to none. If, however, you are willing to get good advice to achieve what you seek?

    Talk to us bro'.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,115
    I like my lower end package smooth

    Dang it Tom..... lol
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,467
    @audioluvr,

    Those 1Cs can produce beautiful music, but as others have advised, they need power to drive them. My amp is a late-1980s-vintage Perreaux PMF3150 which puts out a clean 300 wpc @ 8 ohms and 500 wpc @ 4 ohms. My 1Cs "sing" with that kind of power.

    With that said, do the full mod job on them as soon as you can. You will not regret it. I loved my 1Cs stock, but I was astonished by the improvement I heard with new tweeters, updated (by VR3 Mods) crossovers, Dynamat, Blackhole 5, and new internal wiring, connectors, etc.

    And, get your hands on or build a Dreadnought to replace your SDA IC cable.

    Invest some time and money in them, and those 1Cs will pay off for you! :)
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 MKII Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps or CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

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  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 12
    Well got my Carver 1.0 back from the shop and hooked it up to see if there was going to be any difference. Like night and day! Now the 1C's have LOTS of mid range vocal and bass but the high's (cymbols etc) seem to not have improved making them seem distant and weak. The Klipsch KG4's on the other hand seem so freaking bright it's like fingernails on a chalkboard (still sound REALLY good though). One thing I like about the Klipsch sound is that old fashioned concert hall sound. I think I need to upgrade the Polks tweeters to the RDO-194's. Hopefully that will restore the crispness in the highs. In the mean time I will do the dynomat and see what it's going to take to replace the caps with newer stuff.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    What do ya know, I was right again. After you upgrade the 1C's think about moving to something other than Carver SS power, you'll thank me.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 519
    Its odd that the 1C's highs sound weak. The SL2000's seem rather bright, and do get fatiguing with prolonged listening. I wonder if one set is blown or there is some other issue. While a crossover rebuild is recommended, it may be required to get them sounding right. 194's are much cleaner and smoother sounding, but far from bright. They will take some break in time, so don't go by first impressions.

    I don't 100% recall what the KG4's sound like but most Klipsch from that era have a very forward sound with sound stage projecting beyond the front of the speakers. I think you may be used to that. The 1'C's, most Polks, and many other speakers will have a more laid back sound, with the stage behind the speakers.

    Making sure you have the 1C's set up properly with enough space between them, away from side walls, and not toe'd in, place the KG4's on the out sides of them. You'll get the illusion sound is coming from the KG4's and you'll wounder why they don't sound as bright as you are used to.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 12
    Pkquat, that's spot on! The sound stage of the Klipsch' are forward and the Polks behind! I have the Polks set about 10' apart. Centered in an 18' wide room with the Klipsch' just to the right of them. I REALLY want them to be my main speakers but so far everyone who auditions them "close your eyes and tell me which you like the sound of better, A or B..." Pick the lowly Klipsch' I paid $200 for.

    F1nut, not sure what you have against Carver Amps but it will fall on deaf ears here. I bought them new in 87' and have been extremely happy with the sound reproduction.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    You have the SDA's too far apart. Try 6 to 8 feet.

    Because I've heard just about every SS Carver amp made and they are lacking what better amps bring to the table. Since it appears you haven't tried any other amps since 1987 I can understand that you wouldn't know how lacking your Carver is.

    Now, when it comes to Carver tube amps, they are world class.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,592
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Just picked up a pair of SDA 1C's They are bone stock and an aftermarket IC cable made of 12ga speaker wire and radio shack pin/blade ends.

    Just curious, the aftermarket IC cable, is just the pin to pin connected for each speaker? That is no blade to blade connection between the speakers.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • SCompRacer, The 1C's have a pin blade interconnect cable. I'm hoping the guy wired them up right as I have no idea they are supposed to be. Currently the pin in one speaker goes to the pin in the other.

    All, I have noticed some weird stuff going on with these speakers that may explain poor sound quality.

    **When I turn the balance all the way to the right,

    On the right speaker:
    I hear full volume on all drivers and bottom tweeter. Quieter sound coming out of the top tweeter.

    On the Left speaker:
    I hear reduced volume on the outer drivers and nothing on the inner drivers and nothing out of either of the tweeters.

    **When I turn the balance all the way to the left,

    On the left speaker:
    I hear full volume on all drivers and bottom tweeter. Quieter sound coming out of the top tweeter.

    On the right speaker:
    I hear reduced volume on the outer drdivers and nothing on the inner drivers and nothing out of either of the tweeters.

    Now this seems wrong... Can anyone with properly working SDA's let me know how these are supposed to be working??? If this is right then I need to find another reason why these sound lame.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,227
    Now you are "talking" our language. You may not get the answer tonight but now that you are actually communicating with us? We can help you out.

    It sounds to me like your interconnect cable has issues. Hang loose and others here will answer your inquiry. Just be sure to answer their questions to the best of your knowledge and do not guess or lie. If you do this? Your issues will be taken care of in short order.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 910
    edited December 11
    I think the bigger question is: why do you think this is wrong? (Referring to the balance "issue")
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,227
    Read the OP.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 910
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Read the OP.

    Tom

    Edited post above.


    I wonder if someone hasn't had their hands in this pair... Some polarity checking may be in order.
  • TNTsTunesTNTsTunes Posts: 510
    audioluvr wrote: »
    SCompRacer, The 1C's have a pin blade interconnect cable. I'm hoping the guy wired them up right as I have no idea they are supposed to be. Currently the pin in one speaker goes to the pin in the other.

    All, I have noticed some weird stuff going on with these speakers that may explain poor sound quality.

    **When I turn the balance all the way to the right,

    On the right speaker:
    I hear full volume on all drivers and bottom tweeter. Quieter sound coming out of the top tweeter.

    On the Left speaker:
    I hear reduced volume on the outer drivers and nothing on the inner drivers and nothing out of either of the tweeters.

    **When I turn the balance all the way to the left,

    On the left speaker:
    I hear full volume on all drivers and bottom tweeter. Quieter sound coming out of the top tweeter.

    On the right speaker:
    I hear reduced volume on the outer drdivers and nothing on the inner drivers and nothing out of either of the tweeters.

    Now this seems wrong... Can anyone with properly working SDA's let me know how these are supposed to be working??? If this is right then I need to find another reason why these sound lame.

    Sounds correct to me. When the balance is turned all the way to one side the other speaker is only producing the SDA sound cancellation effect on the outer drivers.

    The tweeters carry different frequency ranges so the upper and lower ones sound different.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

  • So I started messing around with my interconnect cable connections and RCA connections etc to see if maybe I wasn't getting good contact. Tried a different CD in a different CD player (Aerosmith "Toys in the attic") don't know what I did different but sounds REALLY good right now. Well balanced lows, mids and highs. Even had to turn down the treble from maxed to straight up (bass too). I think I need to upgrade my RCA cables...
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,592
    edited December 12
    audioluvr wrote: »
    SCompRacer, The 1C's have a pin blade interconnect cable. I'm hoping the guy wired them up right as I have no idea they are supposed to be. Currently the pin in one speaker goes to the pin in the other.

    .

    Pin - pin only would be correct. The OEM interconnect cable had a blade connector but it was just to stabilize the plug. The only time the blade connection would be used in the circuit is when the isolation transformer interconnect was used. That was for non common ground amps or mono block use.

    The isolation transformer is a 1:1 transformer that prevents a direct wired connection between the speakers. The SDA connection between the speakers occurs in the transformer windings. In that case pin to transformer in and transformer out to blade would connect on each speaker. In other words, a complete circuit through transformer windings for the right and left speaker. The connection occurs through induction in the transformer windings.

    So basically pin to pin connection only, no blade to blade connection should exist between the speakers with the standard interconnect cable. If you have an ohm meter, you could remove the cable and test continuity from pin to pin, then blade to blade. You want pin to pin, don't want blade to blade.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • teekay0007teekay0007 Posts: 1,920
    FestYboy wrote: »
    I wonder if someone hasn't had their hands in this pair... Some polarity checking may be in order.

    That's what she said! :p

  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 7,030
    teekay0007 wrote: »
    FestYboy wrote: »
    I wonder if someone hasn't had their hands in this pair... Some polarity checking may be in order.

    That's what she said! :p

    IN?! Man, you're into some painful stuff.
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  • teekay0007teekay0007 Posts: 1,920
    audioluvr: your test results above, from where you were testing balance left and balance right with the interconnect cable in place, sounds like you were getting the proper results from the proper drivers. The pin-to-pin connection is the only one made between a pair of 1Cs.
  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 519
    In case you haven't googled it. https://polksda.com/manuals.shtml You can find the manual there. It also explains which drivers to what.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 750
    pkquat wrote: »
    In case you haven't googled it. https://polksda.com/manuals.shtml You can find the manual there. It also explains which drivers to what.

    It should be noted that there is also an "Addendum to SRS 1.2tl and SRS 2.3tl Manual" that isn't listed there which shows the updated driver arrangement for the newer tl models.
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • Ok so I need to build new interconnect cable with just the pins... Copy. Does anyone make gold plated pin terminals? Thanks again for all the help!
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,115
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok so I need to build new interconnect cable with just the pins... Copy. Does anyone make gold plated pin terminals? Thanks again for all the help!

    Not that i am aware of
  • TNTsTunesTNTsTunes Posts: 510
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok so I need to build new interconnect cable with just the pins... Copy. Does anyone make gold plated pin terminals? Thanks again for all the help!

    Why do you need one with just the pins? They use a pin/blade interconnect but will work with just a pin. Most members convert over to speakon connectors that utilize both connectors. Replacing the interconnect with a Dreadnought is the best way to go. Dreadnoughts use both connections and most are built for speakon connectors.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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