Marantz PM-14S1 integrated VS. separate preamp & power amp

ClipdatClipdat Posts: 602
edited November 28 in Electronics
In terms of general performance and overall listening experience, how would a high end $3k integrated like the Marantz PM-14S1 (90wpc) compare to say a combination of a Schiit Freya (tube) or Krell KAV-250p (SS) preamp and separate power amplifier such as an older B&K ST125.2 (125wpc) or a newer Marantz MM7025 (140wpc)?

Speaker example would be LSiM 703 or another similar speaker. Just trying to get an understanding of the differences in sound quality with one setup versus the other.

The desire to go high quality integrated (keep it simple) is obvious, but the flexibility and potentially better sound quality of separate components is tempting.

Thoughts?
Bedroom 2 channel: NAD C316BEE, Marantz cd6004, Rotel RCD-1072, Sony SCD-CE595, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Audioquest Bedrock & King Cobra, Kimber Kable Tonik
HT: Onkyo HT-RC360, Athena Micra 6

Comments

  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 8,712
    14S1.....
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    The Marantz is a good integrated, but should you ever decide to move to floorstanders/harder to drive speakers, it will be your limiting factor. It should perform fine on LSIM's though.
    legacy Focus 20/20
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  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 3,752
    I have no experience with integrateds that nice or with tube amps, but I can say that when I had the LSiM 703s and moved from a parasound HCA1000 (100 wpc with pretty stout bass) to a rotel rb-993 (200 wpc) there was a big difference in the tautness and control of the bass, and the overall sound stage widened a bit as well. I was MUCH happier with the sound overall. So although the LSiMs are “easy” to drive, power is still your friend...
    HT Rig:
    Yamaha RX-A1010; Parasound HCA-1000a; Arcam rDac; Mains: PSB Imagine Mini + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Def Tech Procenter 1000; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; Sony BDP-S390, FireTV gen 2

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Audiosource Amp Two, Dynaudio Emit 10, NHT Super One CI, ACI Titan subwoofer, FireTV, Arcam rDac; Bryson BPD-1
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 602
    Nice, thanks for sharing your experience with moving up on power with the 703s. That echoes everything else I've read/heard about how they love power.

    Any thoughts on used older B&K/Parasound/Rotel amps versus new production amps like the Marantz MM7025? My hesitation on used amps would be not knowing if they were used in well ventilated spaces, if they need to be recapped, etc. At least with a brand new amp you get a 3 year warranty. But then perhaps the "they don't make em' like they used to" phrase comes into play.

    Is there a big difference with how they perform/sound?
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    I have no experience with integrateds that nice or with tube amps, but I can say that when I had the LSiM 703s and moved from a parasound HCA1000 (100 wpc with pretty stout bass) to a rotel rb-993 (200 wpc) there was a big difference in the tautness and control of the bass, and the overall sound stage widened a bit as well. I was MUCH happier with the sound overall. So although the LSiMs are “easy” to drive, power is still your friend...

    Bedroom 2 channel: NAD C316BEE, Marantz cd6004, Rotel RCD-1072, Sony SCD-CE595, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Audioquest Bedrock & King Cobra, Kimber Kable Tonik
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC360, Athena Micra 6
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    amps in general usually don't need servicing for around 20 years, give or take a few years depending on quality. Don't be afraid to buy used, just get a grasp on who your buying from and stay away from Ebay.

    Audiogon
    US Audiomart
    Craigslist
    Here...in the FM.

    3 brands to look for used, Parasound/B&k/ McCormack.....with the last one being my personal favorite. All should sound sweet on those LSIM's though.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 13,655
    If you are looking at the 703, please do yourself a favor and consider the Dayens Menuetto that PSOVLSK is selling. If you really wanted to jump up to a nicer integrated, the 703 likes tubes and my Triode Corporation TRV-88SER would pair VERY nicely with it. At 50 WPC it has enough power, and the KT88 tube will pair nicely with the thickness of the 703.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: P3ESR, 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: CP-6311, Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S60, S55, S35, S30, S20, S15, RTA 15tl, Sonner Audio Allegro Unum
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Dayens Ampino, Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, AURALiC Altair, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 602
    Thanks for your insight. Looks like both the integrateds you mentioned are 50 wpc. Doesn't that somewhat go against what others have been saying regarding the 703s loving lots of power?

    I have the 703s in my possession, just have not had a chance to unbox them and try them with my NAD 316BEE yet.
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you are looking at the 703, please do yourself a favor and consider the Dayens Menuetto that PSOVLSK is selling. If you really wanted to jump up to a nicer integrated, the 703 likes tubes and my Triode Corporation TRV-88SER would pair VERY nicely with it. At 50 WPC it has enough power, and the KT88 tube will pair nicely with the thickness of the 703.

    Bedroom 2 channel: NAD C316BEE, Marantz cd6004, Rotel RCD-1072, Sony SCD-CE595, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Audioquest Bedrock & King Cobra, Kimber Kable Tonik
    HT: Onkyo HT-RC360, Athena Micra 6
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,311
    The 703's are a very easy load, you don't need lots of power. That Marantz will drive them beautifully.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,946
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Thanks for your insight. Looks like both the integrateds you mentioned are 50 wpc. Doesn't that somewhat go against what others have been saying regarding the 703s loving lots of power?

    I have the 703s in my possession, just have not had a chance to unbox them and try them with my NAD 316BEE yet.
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you are looking at the 703, please do yourself a favor and consider the Dayens Menuetto that PSOVLSK is selling. If you really wanted to jump up to a nicer integrated, the 703 likes tubes and my Triode Corporation TRV-88SER would pair VERY nicely with it. At 50 WPC it has enough power, and the KT88 tube will pair nicely with the thickness of the 703.

    Differences in amp topology may lead to a amp with less wattage on paper sounding better than an amp with more wattage.

    And tube amps v Solid State isn't always a apples to apples comparison either. Lots of factors when looking for the "right" amp.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,946
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Thanks for your insight. Looks like both the integrateds you mentioned are 50 wpc. Doesn't that somewhat go against what others have been saying regarding the 703s loving lots of power?

    I have the 703s in my possession, just have not had a chance to unbox them and try them with my NAD 316BEE yet.
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you are looking at the 703, please do yourself a favor and consider the Dayens Menuetto that PSOVLSK is selling. If you really wanted to jump up to a nicer integrated, the 703 likes tubes and my Triode Corporation TRV-88SER would pair VERY nicely with it. At 50 WPC it has enough power, and the KT88 tube will pair nicely with the thickness of the 703.

    Differences in amp topology may lead to a amp with less wattage on paper sounding better than an amp with more wattage.

    And tube amps v Solid State isn't always a apples to apples comparison either. Lots of factors when looking for the "right" amp.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 3,752
    tonyb wrote: »
    amps in general usually don't need servicing for around 20 years, give or take a few years depending on quality. Don't be afraid to buy used, just get a grasp on who your buying from and stay away from Ebay.

    Audiogon
    US Audiomart
    Craigslist
    Here...in the FM.

    3 brands to look for used, Parasound/B&k/ McCormack.....with the last one being my personal favorite. All should sound sweet on those LSIM's though.

    Honestly, I have bought a good number of amps, one or two off audiogon, several from here over the years, and numerous ones from fleabay. I have had three that I got REALLY cheap go bad, all three brands known for failure. If you buy from a good seller with good pics and description, and take your 45 days to inspect and test, you shouldn’t have any problems. If you do, just send it back for a refund, eBay protects the buyer. And on top of that, you can buy a squaretrade warranty. I just got a check from a wine fridge that went bad after 3 years. Basically only cost me the price of the warranty for three years of use. So I personally wouldn’t just outright avoid eBay fwiw...
    HT Rig:
    Yamaha RX-A1010; Parasound HCA-1000a; Arcam rDac; Mains: PSB Imagine Mini + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Def Tech Procenter 1000; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; Sony BDP-S390, FireTV gen 2

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Audiosource Amp Two, Dynaudio Emit 10, NHT Super One CI, ACI Titan subwoofer, FireTV, Arcam rDac; Bryson BPD-1
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