Need help finding a stylus

Jstas
Jstas Posts: 14,707
I don't know what forum to put this in so I'm putting it here.

Got a friend with a vintage Marantz 6270Q turntable. It's her dad's and he's in the hospital and not doing real well. She was going to bring it in to him and play some albums for him but the stylus is broken. Like, the needle is snapped off.

I'm looking online but I'm only seeing generic stuff unless it comes from the U.K.

Does anyone have a source for a Marantz 6270Q stylus?
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Comments

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited November 2017
    Need to know what cartridge is in it.
    Post a photo if there's no obvious identifying marks on the cartridge (or if it, perchance, might have been an OEM made for Marantz).

    I looked at the tt online but it's not one with which I am familiar.
    In the US, I would think it very unlikely that the tt would have been sold with a "Marantz" cartridge; if her father didn't buy & install the cartridge himself, the dealer from which he bought it probably did.

    Here's the tt manual & SM from vinylengine, FWIW (and if you/she doesn't have them):
    https://www.vinylengine.com/library/marantz/6270q.shtml
  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Pics I've seen of that table look to have an Audio Technica cartridge with an orange colored stylus installed..Specs of the tracking weight maxes to 3 grams so maybe you can cross reference it..best to get the cartridge ID though..Might be able to ID it by just taking the head shell off the tonearm..
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    Per the previous post: If it is an A-T cartridge (which I'd agree is fairly likely)... A-T had a nasty habit of putting the model number information on the "top" of the cartridge -- necessitating the removal of said cartridge from the headshell.

    A-T gurus could probably ID from a photo, though.
    I am so not an A-T guru :/

  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,471
    Post a photo of the cart in the turntable area of audiokarma. They can likely id it.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited November 2017
    DaveHo wrote: »
    Post a photo of the cart in the turntable area of audiokarma. They can likely id it.

    -- and then denigrate it mercilessly ;)
    (pretty cutthroat bunch of scalawags on the "Vinyl" forum there, I fear)

  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    -- and then denigrate it mercilessly ;)
    (pretty cutthroat bunch of scalawags on the "Vinyl" forum there, I fear)
    HAHAHA I bought a Technics SL-1200MK2 at Mars music in 1999 or 2000, which I have only used for a total of about 5 hours. I recently found the cartridges that I bought with it. They are Ortofons and it says "Night Club" on the stylus. If that doesn't deserve derision, I don't know what does. :o:p
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    well -- they like the SL-1200... other than that... :/
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    OK, here's some pitchurs she sent of the tone arm.

    It apparently has a Pickering XV-15/625E

    It might actually still be good if it's a Pickering. That's a $150 cartridge. I don't want to test it on any of my vinyl, though. Well, maybe I can find some junk stuff from my neighbor and see how it plays. Still a replacement source for something worthwhile, not necessarily $150 worth orf worthwhile would be cool.

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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Replacements for that stylus should be easy to find...not pricey either..Thought you said the cantilever was broken off?..That one looks intact...As long as the cartridge is installed correctly,it can't damage your vinyl...Other things that will are too heavy of tracking force,incorrect tracking angle..mis adjusted anti skate..or worn out stylus tip..since your table does have a bit of age on it..I'd be checking all those items..
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited November 2017
    That was/is indeed a pretty good cartridge.
    The stylus isn't there? It looks like it is.

    Literally any Pickering stylus (from that era of cartridge body design , which was a long era) will fit on it :)

    So should any classic Stanton stylus -- Pickering & Stanton were sister brands in those days (which I only learned recently).

    I would think old stock aftermarket styli from EVG or Pfanstiehl would be OK choices. I don't know if Jico makes styli for Pickering cartridges(?). If so, that would probably be the 'premium' choice today.

    The cartridge, sooner or later, probably deserves a pretty good stylus :)

    If you/she goes with a cheap stylus (e.g., a low-end Pickering elliptical or even conical), try to set the VTF in a range akin to that of the stylus's original cartridge. (That wasn't a terribly well crafted sentence, hope it's decipherable!).

    There is a stylus/cartridge database at vinylengine (as you probably know).
    https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable-database.php

    Qiuck googlage turned up this (FWIW):
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pickering-xv-15-impressions-and-info.47304/
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    SHE said the needle was snapped off.

    Honestly, it looks in good shape to me.

    Also, I found just the stylus on Amazon at two different spots:

    https://www.amazon.com/XV15-Micro-Replacement-Pickering-Cartridges/dp/B008818RVW

    https://www.amazon.com/PHONOGRAPH-NEEDLE-PICKERING-XV-15-4606-DEG/dp/B01JJ73YYI/ref=pd_sim_23_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2BSZV3416W3YN978RF10

    I'll look for the others you mentioned mhardy.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Jerry Raskins Needle Doctor...on line..
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    She might have the tracking force to light and the needle is floating over the record giving an impression of no needle. Check that out too. Like Masabot1 said about the 3 grams max. Maybe it's at .5 right now.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,481
    edited November 2017
    blow up that first picture. seems to me it is just the tube no needle. but then it looks like a needle in the second.
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    I'm only going on what she told me. She said it was broken. I don't know that she tried it, just that she looked at it. To someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, anything other than the conical shaped stylus can look broken. If I read things right, the E in that model number says it's an "elliptical" stylus so it would look less narrow and feel blunted compared to others leading someone with less experience to think there was an issue.

    I don't know what anything is set to drag or tracking force but she said the tone arm will balance pretty easily so I imagine it's not that far off from where it needs to be. I don't have any tools to measure either so it's a guess on my part.

    I'll get a chance later in the week to either grab it and try it out or head over and test it. I think, right now, I'm sticking an LP on it and seeing how it goes. I'll have to see if I can find my dad's stylus brush, though, 'cause that looks dusty.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited November 2017
    1. I'm not sure elliptical styli look much different to the naked eye than a conical -- the differences is fairly small and way down at the tip.

    2. Do you need a "cannon fodder" album to test it with? I can send you something -- and it will be listenable, too. Good enough to make a judgement on the stylus; just not pristine. PM me if that'd be helpful.
  • pumpkinman
    pumpkinman Posts: 9,497
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  • Libertyc
    Libertyc Posts: 914
    I have been dealing with this guy for years. He is in NJ and specializes stylus and tubes.

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/stereo-exchange?ul_noapp=true
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    That diamond is there. It might be a half of a stylus but there is one there.

    Cool side story I have about a broken needle ..

    I bought a fantastic Pioneer PL-560 ( the HEAVY ONE ) at a church yard sale. A guy carried it past me in a box. I thought I missed a possible GREAT find by mere minutes. Well the guy brought it back to where I went and was going to put it back. I asked what happened, too much? He said no, a guy at check out said the needle was broken. The guy who brought it back said he couldn't fix a broken needle. I said I could. We both stood there and plugged it in and it worked fine. I felt under the cartridge and felt the diamond !

    I said I'll fix it. How much do they want ? I asked him..5 dollars he said. :o:D

    I need to put it in service asap. It's been sitting in that same box to long. years now. I brought it out a couple of times to keep it from seizing up. I also bought replacement feet rubber just a month ago for it. I might have bought the wrong rubber innards though.

    Anyway needle replacement and stylus replacement is sooo easy, even I enjoyed doing it to a few broken ones I did have. Kind of inexpensive too if your on a budget.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    So I managed to obtain said turntable.

    Spun some vinyl on it. Plays ok. However, it does like to skip on the slightest imperfection.

    Could that be an artifact of a damaged or worn stylus?
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    Jstas wrote: »
    So I managed to obtain said turntable.

    Spun some vinyl on it. Plays ok. However, it does like to skip on the slightest imperfection.

    Could that be an artifact of a damaged or worn stylus?

    Could be -- but not likely IMO (nope, I am no expert, though).

    Got it level in both planes?

    Is the tracking force right? Were I you, and if I had no gauge to check directly, I'd balance the arm and re-set the VTF, just to be on the safe side. My gut feeling (FWIW) is the VTF's not "optimal". I (again FWIW) always recommend tracking at the high end of the recommended range "for best results". :)

    A new, good stylus would never be a bad investment (as long as it's not a "Fly By Night" brand stylus, of course). The elastomer suspension for the cantilever can harden over the years and really much up the tracking dynamics.



    You know -- given the precise circumstances for this turntable and its owner(s)... you might just want to invest in a good, inexpensive cartridge (e.g., an inexpensive A-T with an elliptical stylus, if there still is one), put it in, set it up, and allow its owner to enjoy it again. A decent new production cartridge could be cheaper and more likely to bring satisfaction than an iffy aftermarket stylus.

    I am always leery of antiskate. Maybe try A/S @ "0" and see if it is better (or worse).

    Could be excessive friction limiting the arm movement -- if so could be bearings but
    it could also be 'drag' from the wiring in the arm (as it exits the arm through its mount). Maybe not likely -- but possible. Did you check for play in the arm bearings? I doubt that sloppy bearings would cause the symptom you describe -- but it is worth checking.

    Just a bunch of musings -- I am (seriously!) no expert, and I've also not yet had enough coffee this morning.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    (workin' on my second cuppa coffee now...) :)

    OK, VE does indeed have the manual and - if you didn't have this info - here's the scoop on allowing for the brush :)

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    add one gram to the nominal VTF setting to allow for the brush :)

    And the "optimal" VTF for the XV-15 625E?

    mnoqfk9ttptz.png

    It's a little tricky to interpret :/ I am guessing that "1 - 1/4 + 1/2 g" means the range is 0.75 to 1.5 grams -- plus 1 gram to allow for the brush. In other words, I'd suggest setting the VTF (after balancing the arm) at 2.5 grams and see how she does :)

  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    I think I figured it out.

    At first I turned the anti-skip off. Not much change.

    The stylus apparently came with one of those little dustbuster brushes. It wasn't on it. I found it in a recessed screw hole for the tone arm mount. So I stuck it on and bent it back straight, looks like it was pinched at some point.

    Anyhoo, I stuck it back on and tried playing the album that skipped the worst again. I didn't adjust drag or tone arm balance or anything. It barely skipped. I turned the anti-skip back up to 1.5 where it was and only the biggest scratches caused issue.

    I'm guessing the drag is set to compensate for the dustbuster brush.

    Works pretty good now. Kinda quiet but I'm guessing that's the output stage. My Micro-Seiki has a higher gain output stage so my phono pre is set pretty low for that.

    So I might go dig up a stylus for it just in case but right now, this is going as is. Hope her dad likes it.

    Needs a good scrubbing though. All kinds of groady funk on it. The platter, tone arm and dust cover are pretty clean, though.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    And see, I figured it all out without even seeing your second post!

    Good guess on my part!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited December 2017
    VTF.
    With the weight of the brush, you gained weight which helped quite a bit. ;)
    Your needle might still be floating too high in the groove.

    Did you check the VTF and can you even adjust the VTF on that model ?
    With some TT you can't adjust it.

    You have a fine cartridge there albeit an old one but it might have some life left in it. Before you buy a new one, try to get a little more weight on the cartridge you have. Try a dime on top, but don't leave it on if it seems to be forcing the needle to flex up too much.
    Then it just might be the output voltage.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    Jstas wrote: »
    And see, I figured it all out without even seeing your second post!

    Good guess on my part!

    You are an intelligent & insightful man (and, no, I'm not being facetious!).
  • I ran across a place on eBay a couple years ago that cataloged aftermarket replacements for just about every cartridge ever made. I bought several to have fresh styluses on every cartridge I had. All junk! Since then I'll only buy replacements made by the cartridge manufacturer.