sonos users must read...

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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    Since you lack the digital inputs on the Cambridge, I'd suggest looking for a cheap DacMagic+ dac to add to the system. You'll get better SQ than using Sonos's built in dac. Plus they aren't expensive on the used markets. Many other choices too for under 200.
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    Since you lack the digital inputs on the Cambridge, I'd suggest looking for a cheap DacMagic+ dac to add to the system. You'll get better SQ than using Sonos's built in dac. Plus they aren't expensive on the used markets. Many other choices too for under 200.

    i actually had a dac magic plus at one time. it sounded very sterile to me.. i did not like it. maybe i would like it better on these speakers.. i dont know i was not wild about the definitive speakers i had at the time.. a nice dac is probably something i should look into again.. i always wonder about that jolita tube dac but i never wanted to spend the money on it.

    one thing i saw that i like allot but its way more than i would spend.. they make a version of the node 2 player that has a built in hard drive, a home stereo music player with a built in hard drive would be awesome in my opinion even my car stereo i can plug a flash drive right into it...

    i really dont see why you need a wifi network to get the songs to your music player.. you should really be able to get them with their own hard drive or at least one where you can attach the hard drive directly to the player player IMO
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    You still need a software program to run them, and you can always hardwire everything. Sonos is like an umbrella, brings different sources of music under one roof. Wireless control and multi room applications is their strong suit. If your computer is near your system, you can hardwire everything, no need for a sonos. Not too many have that scenario though. The Sonos software is their bread and butter also, so easy a caveman can do it, right ? I'm just sayin' though, don't expect great sound just using their box alone, you need an external dac to get decent sound out of these portable players. Unless you step up your game to a more expensive player that is, with better built in dacs, and higher rez capabilities.

    I hear ya on the Dacmagic, my thoughts were a bit sterile also, but some like that type of sound so who am I to judge.
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  • i know you still need a program to run something like that.. sonos does have a nice program.. but having the music on the device its self just seems like a better system than plugging the hard drive with the music into my router which transfers the music to my player.

    now if you had the wifi option for multi room and a usb port on the player that allows you to plug the hard drive directly into it if you don't need multi room that would be very nice.



    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 601
    I've had this happen to me more times than I can remember. I have a physical device or software application that's working just fine. An update is available, whether by notification or by me going and looking to see if there's any updates.

    I decide to update, and it completely disrupts the functionality of the device/software.

    Can't fathom why this type of thing is still happening. Super frustrating.

    There should be a way to roll back to a previous update. Have you tried researching that? Sometimes enthusiasts find ways to put whatever version of software they want to on a device. For example, loading specific versions of iOS onto an iPad, other than the one that Apple wants you to have on it. Might be a similar option for your Sonos unit.

    I guess worst case scenario you could try to sell it on eBay and pick up a different streamer box that is known for having good sound quality.

    Sorry that your main source of audio got messed up by a seemingly innocent update.
    Bedroom 2 channel: NAD C316BEE, Marantz cd6004, Rotel RCD-1072, Sony SCD-CE595, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Audioquest Bedrock & King Cobra, Kimber Kable Tonik
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  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,006
    tonyb wrote: »
    You still need a software program to run them, and you can always hardwire everything. Sonos is like an umbrella, brings different sources of music under one roof. Wireless control and multi room applications is their strong suit. If your computer is near your system, you can hardwire everything, no need for a sonos. Not too many have that scenario though. The Sonos software is their bread and butter also, so easy a caveman can do it, right ? I'm just sayin' though, don't expect great sound just using their box alone, you need an external dac to get decent sound out of these portable players. Unless you step up your game to a more expensive player that is, with better built in dacs, and higher rez capabilities.

    I hear ya on the Dacmagic, my thoughts were a bit sterile also, but some like that type of sound so who am I to judge.

    Agree. There are tons of different systems (music players/streamers) out there but, I believe, any significant upgrade will cost you. And as Tony mentioned, if you want to up your game, you really need a decent internal or external dac. The things really nice about the Sonos is the plug-n-play, the interface and their constant pursuit of upgrading the interface for customer satisfaction. I've tried a few things in the past and to me the interface is one of the most important things to me besides the sound.

    At some point, I'd like to try something like a Aurender or Lumin but the dollar value goes significantly up.

    With the lack of digital inputs that you have I agree with Tony and would focus on the DAC.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: SONOS Music System, DAC: W4S DAC-2, Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8801, Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7, Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7, Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's, IC & Speaker Cables: Signal Cable, Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,311
    Meanwhile I simply push play on my CD/SACD player's remote.
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  • my amp has a DAC built in but it only has a usb input and my sonos only has the optical out. its a bummer i cant try to hook the sonos to the amp's DAC
    F1nut wrote: »
    Meanwhile I simply push play on my CD/SACD player's remote.

    generally i open my software program, press shuffle and thousands of songs will play for days and days and days without interruption. no changing disks. no searching thew several books of CD's to find the one i want to listen too or any of that nonsense lol..

    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 8,711
    F1nut wrote: »
    Meanwhile I simply push play on my CD/SACD player's remote.

    Excellent point! No worries or troubles.
  • dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 228
    edited December 6
    hmm deleted.. some how it posted the same thing twice..

    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    my amp has a DAC built in but it only has a usb input and my sonos only has the optical out. its a bummer i cant try to hook the sonos to the amp's DAC

    Just curious, don't they make a digital to usb cable....somewhere ? Might solve you problem.

    I do agree too with the whole update thing **** up devices.....and Sonos has a lot of them.

    Still, I'd be looking for a dac for around 150 clams. Other options if you don't need the multi room connectivity, Teac and Sony make some good devices that sound way better as a stand alone unit.
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  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 915
    I've never seen an optical to USB cable, probably because a direct conversion is impossible.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    FestYboy wrote: »
    I've never seen an optical to USB cable, probably because a direct conversion is impossible.

    I haven't either, but then again I've never needed one. Just a thought to investigate is all.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • i dont think its possible to go from optical to usb .. i have searched for that kind of cable but cant find it.. i think i was reading its not possible..

    when it comes to dac's im not sure what to look for, i dont wand a sterile sounding one again like the dac magic. it kind of made the music sound more detailed, cleaner bass was tighter but over all it sounded king of boring..

    u know i have a roku, its got a unknown hdmi going to my television and a set of cheap set of interconnects going from the TV to my amp and that sounds better than the sonos at the moment...

    i do remember once there was a update and the sonos sound allot better after the update.. so maybe the next one will make it sound better again.. who knows. i think updating it was a mistake..

    my CD player sounds good but i hate changing disks lol having a streaming system kid of spoils you..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • nguyendotnguyendot Posts: 3,572
    Sonos does use STP and multicast. It obliterates a network - their bridge mitigates that. I have a 15 unit install and just wired them all in so it didn't kill the wifi network with that many packets. Not an issue in sight.
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    I still use their bridge also, even though the newer ones claim you don't need to, for the reasons you just said.

    That's not his issue though, SQ is tricky getting it out of these cheaper streaming devices. You pretty much have to keep things in the digital domain until you can pass it on to a better piece of audio gear.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    It appears some others are also experiencing the lack of SQ after the last update. It may have to do with the "truplay" they added, which ironically was supposed to improve sound from their Sonos speakers.

    Sonos is vesting themselves more so in HT with their own speakers. These updates pertain more so to those areas but your individual box like the connect/zp90 has no use for such things. How that effects the individual boxes, I'm not completely sure. I did notice an area in settings that has a box to check for speaker controls. Uncheck that box if you had it checked.

    I'll circle back to my original assessment, keep things in the digital domain until you can pass it on to a better piece of audio gear. If you rely on the Sonos itself for your SQ, your going to be disappointed.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 601
    Oh man I would be raising hell to Sonos' support right now and not letting them drop the issue until they provide a solution which is satisfactory.
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    HT: Onkyo HT-RC360, Athena Micra 6


  • yeah i do not know what the true play thing is since i do not have it but i have seen people saying their sonos stuff sounds worse with true play turned on..

    checking or unchecking that box for speaker touch controls does not make any difference.
    tonyb wrote: »
    It appears some others are also experiencing the lack of SQ after the last update. It may have to do with the "truplay" they added, which ironically was supposed to improve sound from their Sonos speakers.

    Sonos is vesting themselves more so in HT with their own speakers. These updates pertain more so to those areas but your individual box like the connect/zp90 has no use for such things. How that effects the individual boxes, I'm not completely sure. I did notice an area in settings that has a box to check for speaker controls. Uncheck that box if you had it checked.

    I'll circle back to my original assessment, keep things in the digital domain until you can pass it on to a better piece of audio gear. If you rely on the Sonos itself for your SQ, your going to be disappointed.





    ok lets say i got a DAC, it would still send the same lousy signal with the bad sound quality to the DAC right ??

    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • ok i got another reply from sonos..

    """ It is best for you to call us when experiencing audio quality issues so that we can hear the quality/distortion on our end. It gives us a better chance to pinpoint an exact cause. Our contact information is linked below """"

    how do the expect to hear my sound quality issue over the phone..? does this make sense to anyone,, do they want me to hold the phone up to my speakers or something ?? these people just seems to have no clue at all..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822

    yeah i do not know what the true play thing is since i do not have it but i have seen people saying their sonos stuff sounds worse with true play turned on..

    checking or unchecking that box for speaker touch controls does not make any difference.
    tonyb wrote: »
    It appears some others are also experiencing the lack of SQ after the last update. It may have to do with the "truplay" they added, which ironically was supposed to improve sound from their Sonos speakers.

    Sonos is vesting themselves more so in HT with their own speakers. These updates pertain more so to those areas but your individual box like the connect/zp90 has no use for such things. How that effects the individual boxes, I'm not completely sure. I did notice an area in settings that has a box to check for speaker controls. Uncheck that box if you had it checked.

    I'll circle back to my original assessment, keep things in the digital domain until you can pass it on to a better piece of audio gear. If you rely on the Sonos itself for your SQ, your going to be disappointed.





    ok lets say i got a DAC, it would still send the same lousy signal with the bad sound quality to the DAC right ??

    The lousy sound quality has a lot to do with the built in dac of the Sonos, which you use by using the analog outputs. Simply taking a digital file and passing it on to a better piece of gear bypasses this. You essentially just use the sonos software as a traffic cop, directing where the file is taken from and pushing it out to another piece for decoding. Granted, there's other things along the way in the digital domain with Sonos that can affect the SQ, but imho not to the degree the dac does.

    I know that may not sit well for some who only wished to use the Sonos alone, by itself for playback, but as you can see now, it has it's limits. Sonos is not committed to SQ, and most users would confirm that. Their gig is convenience, and multi room compatibility made easy.

    To me, and others, there is only one way to get decent sound out of a Sonos, and that's to use an external dac.

    On another note, a chromecast which sells for under 30 bucks these days, may be worth a look if budget is an issue. SQ with other streamers too are getting better, as Sonos sits on their rear ends happy with what they have. Cambridge makes a nice unit along with Teac and Sony mentioned previously. Even Marantz....and obviously Bluesound.
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  • What about a little chrome book laptop there less than 200 bucks and I could plug the usb into the built in dac on my amp

    I would assume there is a music software that will do flac files for a chrome book
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    edited December 6
    What about a little chrome book laptop there less than 200 bucks and I could plug the usb into the built in dac on my amp

    I would assume there is a music software that will do flac files for a chrome book

    That would work, but your tethered by wire to the stereo. You could run something like JRIVER on the laptop which will organize and play your files. You may want a standard laptop though with a dvd drive to download your cd's. Don't think those cheap chromecast laptops have dvd drives. You can find decent laptops on craigslist for cheap with dvd drives.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • You can get a USB CD drive for 20 bucks. Or I can just transfer the music I already have on my portable hard drive to the tiny computer.

    I have never did any research on the chrome books but if they are compatible with j river that would be nice. I think Something small and compact would be best for me since it would only be used to play music
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    That would work also, just make sure the chromebook has the inputs/outputs you'd need. Some of them are pretty sparce.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • my aunt had a little asus laptop like that back in in 2005 or so . it ran windows, it worked great for general web surfing and what not.. i think all it had was one usb port but that would be good enough.

    most of the ones i see that size now seem to be chrome books when i was just browsing the small laptops online

    i remember using the dac on my amp when i first got it but the computer does not have room to be right next to the stereo so i had to run a long cable and it was a pain. If i remember correctly it has dual wolfstein dac chips in the amp. it sounded good from what i remember..

    so i dont know.. i might look into going that rout.
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 601
    "Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) 50 to 65 dB"

    No me gusta.
    tonyb wrote: »

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    HT: Onkyo HT-RC360, Athena Micra 6
  • pearsall001pearsall001 Posts: 4,323
    I've had my Sonos for years now & never experienced any issues what so ever. Running thru a Dac is where the audio quality takes a huge leap. I feel bad that you're having these issues. I hope you get it straightened out.
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