sonos users must read...

dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 228
edited November 23 in 2 Channel Audio
so after the last firmware update on my sonos connect i noticed my stereo was sounding lousy. more distortion, not much warmth in the mids and it just sounded like i was playing low quality compressed audio files. sonos customer support has nothing to say about this. Before the update it was sounding great but i figured out the problem and its sounding amazing again..

the new updates must have boosted the signal output, and we all know if the signal is running too high it hurts your audio quality and causes distortion and what not.., I found if i go to settings and switch to the variable line out instead of fixed line out i can adjust the volume of the sons connect its self. lowering the volume on the sonos unit by about 20% sure did clean up the sound and it sounds great again.. it made a huge difference. normally i would have though fixed would give you the cleanest signal but now i see that is not the case here but my units running too high of a signal..

next i found out that you no longer need a sonos wireless bridge with the connect for it to work on wifi but i found not using the bride is a mistake. when i bough my connect you had to use the bridge if you wanted to connect it to your wifi.... today after reading you could now use it without the bridge i decided to remove the bridge, i was thinking one less link in the chain would be a improvement.. it just did not sound the same after removing the bridge.. i started reading what the bridge does.. it actually creates a separate wireless network and they clam that keep out all other interference from your normal wireless network and such stuff which can improve sound quality... i hooked the bridge back up wondering if it was just me being crazy or if it would sound better again. i heard a a big difference in sound quality as soon as i hooked the bridge back up..

so if you own sonos products and use them on wifi i would suggest getting a bridge for it iif you do not have one already and you might want to try to adjust your volume on the sonos unit if you are wired or wireless and see if it improves the sound quality for you..
Cambridge Azur 651A
Polk LSi M703
Sonos Connect




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Comments

  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,198
    Interesting...I have 2 Connects and a Connect Amp with the latest firmware and have experienced none of the issues you have described...
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

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  • it just updated twice in the last few days and my connect sounded very difference after that update and the second one did not change anything. it sounded kind of lousy.. adjusting the volume really fixed it..

    the bridge thing was just something else i wanted to play with it was not part of the problem.... but after playing with it and removing it for the heck of it i find mine sounds better with the bridge.. we got allot of stuff on our wireless network so maybe there is allot of interference on my network. so maybe having the sonos on its own wifi network does help
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,005
    I originally used the bridge then went with a direct connection to the connect. I have the latest firmware installed and was cranking it all morning and did not notice a drop-off.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: SONOS Music System, DAC: W4S DAC-2, Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8801, Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7, Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7, Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's, IC & Speaker Cables: Signal Cable, Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 228
    edited November 23
    Thorton wrote: »
    I originally used the bridge then went with a direct connection to the connect. I have the latest firmware installed and was cranking it all morning and did not notice a drop-off.

    its not the volume on the stereo its self but the volume on the sonos unit which you need the app to control.. try turning that down and see if it changes the sound any.. i circled the volume control in this screen shot.\

    the overall sound quality seems to improve when i adjust that.

    y62z9ebchske.jpg
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • i should probably say mine is the connect so its just a audio streaming box that is sending the audio to my home stereo..

    it does not have its own amp or anything like that.. turning down that volume its not sending as strong of a signal to my stereo.. if the signal being sent to a audio device is too strong it can cause some distortion and lower sound quality..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,005
    Danny, I've always had it set to fixed mode. So maybe why I haven't experienced the difference.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: SONOS Music System, DAC: W4S DAC-2, Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8801, Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7, Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7, Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's, IC & Speaker Cables: Signal Cable, Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • if i put that volume control all the way up it just starts to loose sound quality, looses warmth in the mids and seems to add some mild distortion to the music.. it was not doing that before the update a few days ago..

    my player is pretty old. hopefully that's not the problem lol
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • mantismantis Posts: 14,643
    I have been Installing and selling Sonos since 2006.
    Sonos has undergone many software changes over the years and the new app IMO isn't as good as the older blue model. Maybe I'm one of those people who feel if it's not broke don't fix it but I think the new App is confusing to use and not as smooth and easy as it use to be.
    As far as this issue is concerned I have not experienced it yet. Not to discredit this as I have yet to find this in my system or in the field. I will however be looking out for it now.
    The Deal with Wireless is that when your Sonos units are being used Wireless, the Audio is compressed. When you hardwire it is not. So if you want the best possible Audio from your Sonos system, hardwire the units you care about the sound quality.
    The Bridge or Boost as it's called today is a way to hardwire the incoming signal from the network and then repeat it wirelessly to all other units. The Bridge is really only able to handle up to 3 Sonos units.The Boost is a much better unit and can handle alot more units.
    Sonos uses Spamming tree protocol in there own way and does cause issues with your home wifi network after you get past 3 units. I can't tell you how many networks that I have had to repair due to Sonos crashing them. There are many ways to fix them and Sonos doesn't support the best practice when dealing with Sonos issues.
    If anyone else is having this issue as Dannylighting has, I'd like to hear about it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • so i am the only one ?? i guess no one is having the same issue.. what sucks is i was always thinking damn this stereo sounds good even the day before the update i was thinking that..

    now with the update its just not sounding the same, even after adjusting the volume which helps allot its still does not have that full rich sound that it had. for instance i was listing to one rock album i like allot, is not the best recording but it still sounded really good. now with the update the guitar on that album just sounded kind of high pitch and scratchy and its hard to listen too... before the update that album sounded pretty darn good. allot of my lower quality recordings sounded good before the update but now they do not.

    not once since the update have i tough damn that sounds good. now if i play a album on my CD player it sounds really good again or even if music on my TV is playing it sounds awesome. but not on the sonos

    and u know the last time i checked to see if the sonos or the CD player sounded better i played the same song on the CD player and on the sonos and switched back and forth and they sounded almost identical.. now i can hear a pretty big difference between the two..

    the sonos is just not sounding like it did,..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    No problems with mine. However as I stated in previous Sonos posts, the thing with these cheaper streaming devices is stop using their volume control which has a lot of noise in it. I use it as variable on the casual listening system, fixed on the better system. All though I do back off the dial on the sonos when I fix the volume. You can fix the volume at say 90%.

    Then again, I still have the Sonos controller, so that function may not be available on the app. You may be able to still do it on the computer controller, but the app has it's limits. Sonos keeps saying they will no longer support the old hand held controller, so I imagine it's just a matter of time before it becomes useless but so far, works perfectly.
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    No problems with mine. However as I stated in previous Sonos posts, the thing with these cheaper streaming devices is stop using their volume control which has a lot of noise in it. I use it as variable on the casual listening system, fixed on the better system. All though I do back off the dial on the sonos when I fix the volume. You can fix the volume at say 90%.

    Then again, I still have the Sonos controller, so that function may not be available on the app. You may be able to still do it on the computer controller, but the app has it's limits. Sonos keeps saying they will no longer support the old hand held controller, so I imagine it's just a matter of time before it becomes useless but so far, works perfectly.[/quote

    yeah.. on fixed the volume is always cranked all the way up. i cant set it at 90% like you are saying you can do on the pc or the phone app. i have never seen the hand held thing you are talking about..

    i hope they update it again soon and it goes back to sounding really good. i have noticed in the past that the sound has changed with updates a few times. i remember one update it sounded way better after the update and it stayed that way for quite some time. during that time period there was one update that sounded bad. about 4 days later it updated again and went back to sounding good. so hopefully its gonna do that again.

    i did see one person saying they have a older version of a sonos speaker and they just got a new one and they sound completely different, the new one sounded lousy compared to the old one.. he said old one did not have the latest firmware on it and their new one was updated with the latest firmware when he set it up...
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • im looking at the connect on the sonos website.. its not advertising it as being bit perfect nor is it saying its audiophile quality now.

    seems like there focusing BS now like being able to hook it up to those amazon and google things.. and not focusing on audio quality now...
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    They were never really focused on audio quality. Their gig is software, casual listening and connectivity for multi room applications.

    That said, audio quality can be had with these units, to some extent anyway, by using an external dac.
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    They were never really focused on audio quality. Their gig is software, casual listening and connectivity for multi room applications.

    That said, audio quality can be had with these units, to some extent anyway, by using an external dac.

    they do say this about it.

    CONNECT was one of our very first products at Sonos, long before stand-alone speakers were even a twinkle in our eye. It was called a Zone Player back then and was designed for all the audiophiles in the world (like us) who simply loved the audio equipment they already owned. It still is. And thanks to our regular, ongoing software updates, CONNECT has continued to get better and better over time.

    i do remember at one time they advertised it as being audiophile quality and bit perfect. it did till recently sound just as good as my sony CD player which is not a really fancy one but i have been petty happy with it up until recently.. one of these days ill have to get a new streaming player. most of the well liked ones are what i call very expensive

    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • one thing i always wondered, why cant you just plug your hard drive right into your streaming player, i think its kind of weird i need to plug my hard drive with the music into my Wireless router if you could plug it directly in the only thing you would need the Wifi for would be the pc or phone app to control the player. that just seems like it would be a much better design.

    i just adjusted the EQ on my sonos player, before the EQ seemed to do very little now its making a pretty big difference.. i adjusted the bass slider up by 2 notches and the lowered the terbel by 1. it brouhgt some warmth in the mids back and it sounds much fuller now, its still not sounding like it did but its better.

    anyone ever hear the node 2 streaming players ?. i was reading its made by NAD or they have something to do with it..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    anyone ever hear the node 2 streaming players ?. i was reading its made by NAD or they have something to do with it..

    the node 2 is a better sounding player, if you compare each on it's own merits. Like I said though, the differences are almost nil when using a separate dac. The node has the benefit of playing higher rez files though, something Sonos is dead set against.
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  • msgmsg Posts: 3,500
    Danny, if I'm not mistaken most of the streamers these days offer local USB storage support.

    If you're no longer happy with the Sonos, have you ever thought about building your own streamer? You can put something together pretty affordably with a Raspberry Pi, a DAC hat (or Digi+ hat if you want to use your own DAC), and a free OS to run on it. Plug in your external, and control it all through a web browser or smartphone app.

    piCorePlayer is what I use because it ties into LMS (Logitech Media Server). Works like a Squeezebox player.

    Here are a couple of different projects I pulled up real quick to give you an idea of what's out there.
    Here's one from @sucks2beme
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/168087/the-raspberry-pi-2

    Here's @crashb4 's project
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/172515/streaming-audio

    Here's a general search for Raspberry Pi on the forum
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/search?Search=Raspberry+pi

    This is a brief summary of one I built for Darryl @voltz . Again, it's a little more complicated to set up and run, but there's a great community out there for this stuff. You can even run LMS and piCorePlayer on the same device, I think, but I never got it set up this way. This one uses the RPi2 and HiFiBerry's DAC+ in a nice little case.
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/173967/msgs-hifi-berry-raspberry-pie

    No guarantees on sound quality improvement over that of you Sonos, but HiFiBerry stuff is pretty popular among the DIY RPi crowd.


    Something definitely sounds off about that fixed output not working properly. I'd do a factory reset if you haven't already (sorry if this has been suggested/you've already tried this; I haven't read all the posts)
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    Also want you to note about the bit perfect thing.....Sonos is bit perfect when volume is fixed at 100%. Keep in mind, that with these cheap digital volume controls, when on a variable output you lose bits of information at lower volumes.

    2 sides of the same evil coin too. Having the volume fixed benefits the bit perfect factor, but also introduces into the signal a certain amount of noise from that digital volume control being fixed at 100%. That's why it was always desirable to back off the volume levels on the Sonos to say 85-90% before fixing it. Less noise in the signal. Not sure if Sonos still has that option through the various updates you must constantly go through. I think now once you set the volume to fixed, it automatically fixes it at 100%.

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  • thanks guys.. good info here... so get this. i contact sonos customer service explaining the issue.. they keep telling me things like unplug the sonos and plug it back in.. unplug your router and plug it back in and such stuff. ok i get that. but........

    now they are telling me to adjust the volume bass and treble on my stereo receiver and that should make the sound quality better. and to put my connect in fixed move and try to adjust the bass and treble on that.. which you cant even do in fixed mode. i officially think sonos is a joke now..

    they have asked me to run a diagnostic a few times now.. they will not tell me what they have found from the diagnostic either..
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    edited December 4
    thanks guys.. good info here... so get this. i contact sonos customer service explaining the issue.. they keep telling me things like unplug the sonos and plug it back in.. unplug your router and plug it back in and such stuff. ok i get that. but........

    now they are telling me to adjust the volume bass and treble on my stereo receiver and that should make the sound quality better. and to put my connect in fixed move and try to adjust the bass and treble on that.. which you cant even do in fixed mode. i officially think sonos is a joke now..

    they have asked me to run a diagnostic a few times now.. they will not tell me what they have found from the diagnostic either..

    The diagnostic is for their end, but it can also confirm wireless problems which is only shared with you when you call them.

    If your having SQ issues, could it be other gear/cables your using that it's connected to ? If you just have it connected to a receiver, which isn't optimal to begin with, try using the analog outs of the Sonos instead of the digital. Use decent cables.

    I've tried every conceivable way with my 2 boxes. Without using an external dac, the analog outputs are the best sounding. With an external dac, the digital coax.

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    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 228
    edited December 4
    tonyb wrote: »
    thanks guys.. good info here... so get this. i contact sonos customer service explaining the issue.. they keep telling me things like unplug the sonos and plug it back in.. unplug your router and plug it back in and such stuff. ok i get that. but........

    now they are telling me to adjust the volume bass and treble on my stereo receiver and that should make the sound quality better. and to put my connect in fixed move and try to adjust the bass and treble on that.. which you cant even do in fixed mode. i officially think sonos is a joke now..

    they have asked me to run a diagnostic a few times now.. they will not tell me what they have found from the diagnostic either..

    The diagnostic is for their end, but it can also confirm wireless problems which is only shared with you when you call them.

    If your having SQ issues, could it be other gear/cables your using that it's connected to ? If you just have it connected to a receiver, which isn't optimal to begin with, try using the analog outs of the Sonos instead of the digital. Use decent cables.

    I've tried every conceivable way with my 2 boxes. Without using an external dac, the analog outputs are the best sounding. With an external dac, the digital coax.

    it sounded great, than there was a update.. there was a major change in sound quality after the update.. its hooked to my amp with RCA's
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • all AQ cables. king cobra RCA's and type 4 speaker cable.

    uifvwc6cgiiz.jpg
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    Did you try unplugging it for a few minutes ? I've noticed at times these boxes get a little wonky if you don't reset them every once in awhile.

    Try the other connections as well, Maybe a digital connection to your receiver would sound better to you.
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    Did you try unplugging it for a few minutes ? I've noticed at times these boxes get a little wonky if you don't reset them every once in awhile.

    Try the other connections as well, Maybe a digital connection to your receiver would sound better to you.

    yeah. i unplugged the sonos stuff, the modem and the router and all of that stuff.

    i was actually listening to it in fixed mode and it was sounding great. i noticed the pc software said there was a update.. i stopped the music. it updated and after the update it was sounding mildly distorted and allot of the low end was gone.. highs and high mids sounded harsh and scratchy like you would hear on a low end audio mp3 or something like that.

    after it was sounding bad i took it out of fixed mode. lowered the volume by 20% and it sounded cleaners. had to bump up the bass on the Connects software 2 or 3 notches to get some of that Lowe end back. but its not sounding like it was the high end still dons not sound anywhere as natural as it was before.. lets just say before the update sound quality was at a 10 on fixed mode now is around a 7.5 on variable with the adjustments. its about at a 5 when i put it in fixed mode where the audio adjustments are unavailable.
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    But did you use the digital connection to your receiver ?
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    Pioneer elite vsx21
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    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • tonyb wrote: »
    But did you use the digital connection to your receiver ?

    no, my amp only has rca inputs.
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,812
    Amp ? or receiver ? There's a difference. What are you using exactly ?
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
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    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 228
    edited December 5
    a Cambridge azur 651a integrated amp..

    i told the people at sonos that but they continue to call it a stereo receiver. there is nothing i can adjust on the amp that could make it sound better

    basically something happened to the connect during the update that killed the sound quality.. its definitely something with the connect its self causing the issue
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 749
    a Cambridge azur 651a integrated amp..

    i told the people at sonos that but they continue to call it a stereo receiver.

    You might be surprised at the number of people who don't know the difference. I know several people that consider themselves "audiophiles" that are unaware of the concept of separates. :o
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  • Viking64 wrote: »
    a Cambridge azur 651a integrated amp..

    i told the people at sonos that but they continue to call it a stereo receiver.

    You might be surprised at the number of people who don't know the difference. I know several people that consider themselves "audiophiles" that are unaware of the concept of separates. :o

    i hear you allot of people don't get it.. most people i know have a AVR of some sort to listen to music with. but if there happy with it that is what counts i guess.

    my intergrated amp sounds allot cleaner than my old denon 2 channel receiver did. i think its a pretty nice step up. i cant afford top of the line stuff but i was extremely happy with this set up before this issue with the sonos started.

    i think most people would hear it now and still go damn that sounds good but its definitely not sounding as good as it was.
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




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