Over Dampened Room?

I went a little acoustic panel crazy over the last few years trying to tame my RTi8's for music. Got it to where I absolutely love my RTi speakers for movies. I wouldn't call the room flat sounding, I thought everything was perfect for HT, more detail, the highs were toned down, but still too bright for my taste with music at a higher volume. I should also add that it's a small room.

I been looking for a used set of 703's for music and made a purchase last week, ended up buying the matching 706 center, as well. Hooked up everything to test them out after a long trip home, all three sitting on the floor. I sat on the floor, and thought they sounded amazing with music. Just ecstatic over my purchase. Even played music through the center to make sure it survived the trip home as well. I was just dying to try these out with a movie, but don't have stands for the 703's. I put the center in place of my CSi5, tilted the 703's up, re-calibrated...started a movie. Disappointing. There was a lack of highs and almost a flat sound which I've never heard mentioned with the LSiM series. I've seen Tonyb mention in a couple of acoustic panel related threads that you can over dampen a room. My room has never sounded flat to me. I know first hand what a positive and strong impact acoustic panels can make. Now, maybe I just had a bad calibration. My CSi5 is back in place and the 706 is wrapped up and stored for now until I get stands for the 703's. So I can't test this theory at the moment. So it will be awhile before I get a chance to play with all three LSiM speakers again. I mentioned in another thread that I was going to temporarily hook up the 703's to 'zone 2" so I could still have my RTi speakers hooked up for HT. I meant to say "Speaker B", not zone 2.

Do you think the panels are causing my issues? Soaking up the highs? I know a room can be over dampened, but can the right amount of panels for one set of speakers be too many for a different set of speakers?

I have ten various sized panels in this room. The panels behind the front speakers are sitting on the floor, but many others are elevated. So when everything was sitting on the floor, the two rear panels were the only ones in that audio plane. I sat on the floor when listen to music because the 703's are on the floor, but sat in my chair with the 706 elevated just below the TV when watching the movie, getting the full acoustic panel effect.
Components - Pioneer Elite SC-05 | Pioneer BDP-51FD | Monster PowerCenter HTS 5000 | Sony Bravia | Dish
Speakers - Polk: LSiM703's, LSiM706c | Polk HT: RTi8's, CSi5, F/Xi3's, CSi3 Single Rear | Sub: HSU Research VTF-2 MK4
Cables - Doug's Furez DCF124BW SC's | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC's | AudioQuest Chocolate HDMI's | Monster M850SW
Tweaks - PS Audio Power Port Classics | Acoustic Treatments OC703 | Dynamat: Components, Baskets | Sanus Mass Loaded UF30

Comments

  • msgmsg Posts: 3,503
    Obviously can't comment on the degree to which you're hearing the 703s damped, but I will say that for as much as I hated the RTi speakers I had for music (RTi10) I enjoyed them for tv, especially the CSi5 center.

    I can also acknowledge that what you're experiencing is probably not just in your mind, as I had a similar experience between 703s and S20s. I found the S20s to be a touch more pleasing for the tv experience than the 703s, while still being enjoyable for music. The S20s just added a touch more sparkle to the top end, and the experience during films was sharper and more succinct.

    Can the environment and system be tuned and calibrated to allow for better tv performance from the LSiM series? Considering how much you've put into trying to tame the RTis, I'd say that if you were in any way successful, that it would indeed be damping the LSiMs as well.

    You recalibrated with a mix of 703s and the CSi5? If so, do you think that could be throwing things off, considering that the center is such a weighted channel for theater? Maybe you could try recalibrating with the full LSiM suite connected and see where that gets you?

    I don't know anything about room treatments yet, but would have to wonder whether the listening plane is a conclusive observation in determining the amount to which your "active" panels contribute to the damping. Couldn't simply the presence of damping materials in the space be soaking up the sound? Regardless of your particular listening position?
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 1,282
    msg wrote: »
    Can the environment and system be tuned and calibrated to allow for better tv performance from the LSiM series?
    Yes, that's what Jesse suggested also, tweaking the setting after the calibration. Just didn't think I'd have to. In the past the only adjusting I had to do was bump up my sub a little. But I don't want them to sound too bright with music.
    msg wrote: »
    You recalibrated with a mix of 703s and the CSi5?
    No, I had put the 706c in the place of the CSi5. And it was at the appropriate height, just below my TV, which was a task because I had to raise my TV to get it to fit. (TV mounted on column)
    msg wrote: »
    I don't know anything about room treatments yet, but would have to wonder whether the listening plane is a conclusive observation in determining the amount to which your "active" panels contribute to the damping. Couldn't simply the presence of damping materials in the space be soaking up the sound? Regardless of your particular listening position?
    I don't know the answer. I know ten panels sounds like a lot in a small room, but some are small. Three are 2'x2' and two are 1'x2', had some furniture to work around, the rest are 2'x4'. When I clap my hands, the room doesn't sound dead. But you can definitely tell there are panels in the room. I thought vocals sounded perfect while listening to music, but the movie vocals sounded unnatural. I know sometimes it takes time to get used to changes, but I was expecting an immediate improvement, like I heard with music.

    I'm in the same boat as you were in regards to looking for stands. Came across your thread about dampening your stands last night. Great thread, love DIY threads here. When you started tapping the stands with a screwdriver at the end of the video, I was just waiting for a big ol' chunk of paint to pop off where you were hitting them. :smiley:

    What are you using to power your 703's?

    Components - Pioneer Elite SC-05 | Pioneer BDP-51FD | Monster PowerCenter HTS 5000 | Sony Bravia | Dish
    Speakers - Polk: LSiM703's, LSiM706c | Polk HT: RTi8's, CSi5, F/Xi3's, CSi3 Single Rear | Sub: HSU Research VTF-2 MK4
    Cables - Doug's Furez DCF124BW SC's | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC's | AudioQuest Chocolate HDMI's | Monster M850SW
    Tweaks - PS Audio Power Port Classics | Acoustic Treatments OC703 | Dynamat: Components, Baskets | Sanus Mass Loaded UF30
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,822
    Herm, that's way too many panels. If you can post a pic of the room, we'd gladly give you suggestions on placement.

    The 703's are not hot on the top end anyway like RTI's, it's possible you may not need any panels at all, depending on how the room looks.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • msgmsg Posts: 3,503
    Hermitism wrote: »
    Three are 2'x2' and two are 1'x2', had some furniture to work around, the rest are 2'x4'. When I clap my hands, the room doesn't sound dead. But you can definitely tell there are panels in the room. I thought vocals sounded perfect while listening to music, but the movie vocals sounded unnatural. I know sometimes it takes time to get used to changes, but I was expecting an immediate improvement, like I heard with music.

    I'm in the same boat as you were in regards to looking for stands. Came across your thread about dampening your stands last night. Great thread, love DIY threads here. When you started tapping the stands with a screwdriver at the end of the video, I was just waiting for a big ol' chunk of paint to pop off where you were hitting them. :smiley:

    What are you using to power your 703's?
    ah, yes, good, glad you liked it. That was a fun little project. Haha, yeah, those Pangea speaker stands ring out loud and proud before mass loading. They feel ridiculously cheap for the money they cost, which I remember reading Emlyn saying on Jesse's stands thread. The Sanus SF22 are a bit better made, imho, but with 4 pillars instead of the 2 on the Sanus, the Pangeas I think are the more solid after mass loading. After I filled them, I kept tapping on them just to hear how solid they sound. The Sanus UF22's were the ones to get. I waited over a year, and was keyed into a line on a set, but held off too long and they were gone. I think Ray's got another thread going right now for stands for his newly acquired 703s, as well. Not sure where he ended up...

    I need to read up some on room treatments. That note about clapping your hands has me thinking I'd hear lots of reflection in my main space. I don't even know what's desirable in that test.

    My favorite setup for the 703s is an older B&K AVR 507. I think it's 150w @ 8Ω. 703s sound great to me even without a sub. Fat and smooth. I thought they even sounded pretty good on Skips little Ampino he let make a little stop over on its way back down to TX, granted they lost a bit of the bottom end and I couldn't get them very loud. But sound quality wise, I thought they were enjoyable. The 703s are a speaker I can just get lost in the music with, and forget about the gear. That was a nice move there, imo. I hope you can get them dialed in to your liking. I will say that it did take me a long time to settle down into the 703s after even just three months with the RTi10s. It was months later that I actually took notice of how smooth and well performing they are. Literally stopped and looked over at the system at the realization. Faves for sure.
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