AXPONA 2018

189101113

Comments

  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,122
    edited April 17
    marvda1 wrote: »
    here's what one guy had to say about the revel room.

    The Revel F228bes are incredible, the Revel room at AXPONA was one of the best, and it was a dead-simple chain - Auralic G2, Mark Levinson 585 Integrated, F228bes and they sounded better than rooms that cost several times as much.
    erniejade wrote: »
    The Performa was stunning! Angelo ( newrival) was in the room with me. He walked into the room blindly and didn't even know what speaker they were! He leaned over to me and asked what brand are we listening to. When I said the Revel Performa, he said no wonder why I liked them so much, I love Revel stuff! They had a wonderful sound. I stayed for 3 songs on this one.

    Revel stuff sounds SO nice. I tell you the Perfoma3 F206 & F208 at $3.5K - $5K a set retail are about as high priced of a speaker I can hope to own off the used market. Right now I've seen the F206 at about $2600 so I'll still need a couple more years or so. That's my dream speaker...mated with a nice hybrid integrated.

    With the F228Be doubling in price at $10K a pair, those are now in a new territory.... unobtainable for me but I hope to get a chance to listen. Maybe I'll check them out when one of the stores in the area gets them in.
    Post edited by WLDock on
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 2,984
    edited April 17
    WLDock wrote: »
    marvda1 wrote: »
    here's what one guy had to say about the revel room.

    The Revel F228bes are incredible, the Revel room at AXPONA was one of the best, and it was a dead-simple chain - Auralic G2, Mark Levinson 585 Integrated, F228bes and they sounded better than rooms that cost several times as much.
    erniejade wrote: »
    The Performa was stunning! Angelo ( newrival) was in the room with me. He walked into the room blindly and didn't even know what speaker they were! He leaned over to me and asked what brand are we listening to. When I said the Revel Performa, he said no wonder why I liked them so much, I love Revel stuff! They had a wonderful sound. I stayed for 3 songs on this one.

    Revell stuff sounds SO nice. I tell you the Perfoma3 F206 & F208 at $3.5K - $5K a set are about as high priced of a speaker I can hope to own on the used market. Right now I've seen the F206 at about $2600 so I'll still need a couple more years or so. That's my dream speaker...mated with a nice hybrid integrated.

    With the F228Be doubling in price at $10K a pair, those are now in a new territory.... unobtainable for me but I hope to get a chance to listen. Maybe I'll check them out when one of the stores in the area gets them in.

    the bookshelf is $4000
    also read where a guy said the revel and new paradigms blew away the new $12000 magico
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,122
    Interesting! There must be more magic in the Be tweeter, Ceramic drivers, and improved crossover?

    Many seem to be adding in lines with Beryllium tweeters and Ceramic drivers. I REALLY wanted to listen to the SB Acoustics room. I read that some of the DIY kits sounded fantastic with their new Beryllium tweeter and Ceramic drivers. They had a 3-way towered designed by SB Acoustics, Jeff Bagby, and Javad Shadzi. They both had great things to say about the project.

    Jeff
    "I will say that SB Acoustics is really **** up here. I do not know how much this tweeter will sell for, but whatever it is, I see absolutely no reason to spend more on a tweeter. This tweeter has sonic characteristics that I only associate with very few of the best tweeters I have ever heard. I have not listened to the Satori Beryllium but it's hard for me to believe it sounds a lot different. This is absolutely one of the best high frequency drivers I have ever heard regardless of price. I sold my Scan Illuminators and my Transducer Labs Berylliums, but I wont be getting rid of these. I may even switch over to these for my ultimate speaker build."

    Javad
    "This was the first time I've worked with higher end SBA drivers, these drivers remind me that there is no substitute for good drivers that work well together. This tweeter and 5" mid could be used together with no padding which is nice, the smooth detail that these drivers produce is astonishing, with excellent dispersion the Ceramicos image eerily good, probably the best imaging speaker I've ever built."

    30226658_10215264145012576_4032807519321424968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=0b7662961fb13a378a83e295bad2f7fd&oe=5B697837
    29983409_10215322006659081_4178997407787713767_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=941bead36f4332e6ccbe890666a6e8f8&oe=5B6E5C85
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,054
    The Beryllium tweeter in the dyi kit sounded sweet. SB had their bookie with the $400 Beryllium  tweeter and their floor standing kit without the Beryllium tweeter i told them they should have put the Beryllium  un the floor stander. For a kit, they sounded quite good. No match for the preforma BE or the bigger Focal or Sonner but its a quarter of the price.

    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery

    HT: Elite SC27, Full Polk RTI setup.

  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,054
    @WLDock When I was in that room they only had the 2 white ones. They did not have the nice wood looking ones.
    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery

    HT: Elite SC27, Full Polk RTI setup.

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,603
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Bass Off.....boom

    Anyone experience the Bass Off
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,054
    Actually. Even the HT rooms feom emo and jrt weren't thumpung as hard as i thoight they would.
    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery

    HT: Elite SC27, Full Polk RTI setup.

  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 3,654
    Got a text from Skip on April 8 asking if I wanted to drive to Chicago with him. Wish I could have, but just too much going on right now since I recently moved. Reading this thread has really, really made me wish I could have gone. Looks like some awesome setups, but more importantly, looks like a lot of good (and not so good) Polkies were there.

    I'm really hoping to make it to LSAF. The recent move along with a couple of other things are going to make it difficult, but my plan is to be there on Saturday afternoon.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,540
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    looks like a lot of good (and not so good) Polkies were there.

    :o
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,672
    I'm not sure how literal to interpret it but I think we could have left out the "forget RMAF" comment. LSAF, RMAF and Axpona all have their place IMO and it's silly to rule the others out of the mix because one show happens to be bigger. LSAF is a grassroots show (mostly) with smaller companies and a few people who just set up their own systems and jam, Axpona sits on the other end of the scale, and RMAF sits right in between...they're all great shows and anyone who has access should attend any of those shows.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,505
    edited April 20
    The point is if you can only make it to one big show, axpona should be it. This was an overwhelming consensus with everyone who attended both shows, regardless of what their actual participation in the event sided on.

    The venue itself has a lot to do with this. The attention and care from those running the show was also huge. I saw reps from the show no less than a half dozen times in my room asking what they could do to make the show better for me.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,672
    I see, yeah I wouldn’t even call RMAF a big shoe, like I said I see it as the halfway point between LSAF and a big show like Acpona.

    Is there a CanJam at Axpona?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,505
    edited April 20
    Nope. For headphones RMAF is still it. I know there was representation there but not as much coverage. It isn't it's own event if you will.

    RMAF used to be THE show in the US. AXPONA has stolen that spot and is still on the rise. Some reviewers are clamoring right now that it might be challenging the biggest shows in the World.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,672
    edited April 20
    That’s probably how it’ll stay too as I think RMAF is as big as it’s gonna get. Denver just can’t compete with larger cities like Chicago on the hotel front, the Marriott in Denver is probably the best hotel in town believe it or not.

    Either way hopefully there will be enough continued interest to keep RMAF alive, there’s a lot of tradition in having that show on the map,
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,520
    edited April 24
    Good on ya Skip
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 1,016
    Looks like it was fun, I really wish I could’ve gone. Good job Skip!
    Anyone know of any shows in the Orlando area?
    2 channel
    Speakers: Mission 770 Freedoms
    Integrated amp: Technics SU-v75 and matching tuner
    CDP: Technics SL-PC20
    Cables: Monoprice, Monster, Acoustic Research, and a few generic ones
    TT: Technics SL-3200, direct drive
    Cartridge: Shure M97xE

    Pc gaming setup
    Receiver/amp: Yamaha RX-V665
    Computer: Lenovo g50 (soon to be upgraded to a Dell Precision 690 which is far from stock!!)
    Interconnects: Amazon basics HDMI, Acoustic Research HDMI, Monoprice speaker cables
    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR75s

    Random equipment on standby:
    Onkyo TX-v940, JBL woofers and tweeters, single Klipsch KG .5, Yamaha guitar amplifier, Peavey Rage 158 guitar amplifier, Kicker comp 12” subwoofer, single Bose 802 series II, a whole bunch of 1”-3” full range drivers, Infinity Crescendo 3007s (on sale), Polk LSi25s
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    You don't tell her you read the manual, and you tell her you know what the problem is, and you fixed it, because that what men do, fix things
    sure it has a flat response, and sure it has a lot of detail, and yes, it has good and clear lows. But is it enjoyable to listen to? Does it make you grin ear to ear? That’s what really matters.
    Seen somewhere on AudioKarma (I think)
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 1,658
    DSkip wrote: »
    What has stuck with me until this day, is the SS&I of these speakers.
    SS&I?

    I get so sick of being the village idiot around here.
    2.0 - Marantz NA8005 | Polk LSiM703 | PS Audio: Duet, Power Port Classic, PerfectWave AC5 x2 PC | Wireworld Equinox 7 IC | Sanus UF30 | OC703 Panels

    6.1 - Pio Elite SC-05 | Pio BDP-51FD | Polk: RTi8, CSi5, F/Xi3, CSi3 | HSU Research VTF-2 MK4 | Monster HTS 5000 | DCF124BW x3 SC | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC | AQ Chocolate x2 HDMI | M850SW | PS Audio Power Port Classic x2 | OC703 Panels
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,505
    Sound stage and imaging.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 3,562
    I have no idea either lol
    Hermitism wrote: »
    SS&I?

    I get so sick of being the village idiot around here.

    Got Dayens?
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 1,658
    I should have gotten that one!
    2.0 - Marantz NA8005 | Polk LSiM703 | PS Audio: Duet, Power Port Classic, PerfectWave AC5 x2 PC | Wireworld Equinox 7 IC | Sanus UF30 | OC703 Panels

    6.1 - Pio Elite SC-05 | Pio BDP-51FD | Polk: RTi8, CSi5, F/Xi3, CSi3 | HSU Research VTF-2 MK4 | Monster HTS 5000 | DCF124BW x3 SC | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC | AQ Chocolate x2 HDMI | M850SW | PS Audio Power Port Classic x2 | OC703 Panels
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,054
    Skip that's awesome!!!!!
    Lumin D1, KEF LS50 Wireless, Cayin scd-50T, LH Labs VI Dac, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP I7 Laptop, Wireworld Eclipse 7, Wireworld Aurora, Wireworld Electra 7, Signal Magic Digital, Cardas Quadralink 5C, Velodyne SPL1200
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery

    HT: Elite SC27, Full Polk RTI setup.

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 15,608
    Skip happy you got some coverage. Matt knows his stuff from what I remember from our quick conversations at Mikes.

    Hope to make AXPONA next year, and maybe LSAF......

    Next time your up this way let me know lol....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • JayCeeJayCee Posts: 316
    A bit more coverage from Stereophile...

    "...I took a seat in the first row, which sounded much better than farther back in the room, and things quieted down as I listened to more sweet sound..."

    "...I was very happy to again see Rosso Fiorentino loudspeakers in the US: I've really enjoyed the sound of some of this Italian company's models. Here, it was the Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo 2.5-way ($6500/pair), which kept company with the North Star Design Supremo DAC ($4000), which does PCM up to 384 kHz and DSD up to 256, depending upon input, Mastersound Box class-A 35Wpc integrated amplifier ($3000), and North Star Design Magnifico upsampling CD player ($4000). I'm not sure if the latter was used solely as a transport."


    https://www.stereophile.com/content/jason-time-travels-day-three
  • AsSiMiLaTeDAsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,672
    Great job Skip, congrats on getting the feedback, that has to feel good after all the work you’ve put in and risk you’ve taken over the last couple years. I’m thrilled to see that’s paying off now.
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 4,932
    WTG Skip!!
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • gudnoyezgudnoyez Posts: 6,162
    Glad to hear it Skip recognition well deserved.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,520
    edited April 25
    Job well done Skip
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • indyhawgindyhawg Posts: 918
    Awesome job, Skip.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 3,562
    A mention in Stereophile?! Hell yeah! Congrats Skip.
    Got Dayens?
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