sda srs 2.3 modifications

IamtheslimeIamtheslime Posts: 38
edited October 1 in Vintage Speakers
Hi there - looking to do some modifications on my 2.3's (non TL). Have the RDO194 tweeter replacements coming, and looking at the vr3 fortress 2 crossover replacement - or I may tackle replacing the capacitors myself and see what that does. I should say, that I am hoping to hear significant improvement in highs ... they are somewhat muddy and muted as is and I have resorted to running an EQ, which I don't think should be necessary.

I've read over the other recommended mods, and will tackle as time permits. Was thinking the tweeters and crossovers, or recap, would make the biggest difference ?

A couple other questions:

1. looks like same VR3 crossover upgrade is the same for 2.3's and 2.3tl ? If so, would it be possible to upgrade my 2.3's to tl's ? I guess that would involve purchasing different tweeters, and some additional drivers ... and swapping left and right speakers as the layout seems to be reversed between 2.3 and TL .. ? but if its the same crossover, and cabinet, thinking it should be possible ...

2. Also, I can't hear any difference at all with the SDA cable plugged in, or out. None, whatsoever. All drivers appear to be functioning properly ... Any ideas ... would VR3 crossover fix this ?

Running parasound 1500 amp, speakers are about 8 feet apart, and about 3 feet from side walls - room about 15*25.

Any advice on these, or other matters greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
«13

Comments

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    The 2.3 and 2.3TL crossovers aren't even close.

    You've got problems with your speakers that should be addressed before doing anything else. There is nothing muted or muddy about those SL2000 tweeters and if you can't hear a difference with the SDA cable connected that's an entirely different problem.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • IamtheslimeIamtheslime Posts: 38
    edited October 2
    F1nut wrote: »
    The 2.3 and 2.3TL crossovers aren't even close.


    You've got problems with your speakers that should be addressed before doing anything else. There is nothing muted or muddy about those SL2000 tweeters and if you can't hear a difference with the SDA cable connected that's an entirely different problem.


    Ok, good to know on the crossovers. The VR3 website sort of grouped the 2.3's and 2.3tl crossovers together giving me the impression they were the same part ...

    I agree, the speakers should sound much better, so something is wrong. I have access to another (albeit smaller) amp I could try and see if that makes a difference. Then I guess I'll start taking them apart to see if anything looks out of place. I did see that the wiring schematics are available so I could verify that this is at least correct.

    Thanks
  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 514
    The TL crossovers have require a different tweeter among other things. TL versions originally used the SL3000 tweeter, not the SL2000. The replacement for the SL3000 tweeter is the RD0-198. The replacement for the SL2000 is the RD0-194. Some people prefer the RD0-198 to the 194, and when they upgrade the crossover build it to the TL specs. and get the RD0-198 tweeters.

    As @F1nut mentioned you have other issues to sort through first. It could be some of the SL2000's are blown. What amp(s) are you using? Have you double checked all the wiring? Do not toe the speakers in. Here is a link to the manual and other information.

    https://polksda.com/manuals.shtml Go through the SDA setup and check process, pages 3-5.

    This is also a good link. http://www.gimpod.com/sda-id.html

  • Thanks pkquat - I had reviewed the manual and speaker ID - and ordered the correct replacement tweeters. Strangely, while I have the 2.3's the back of my speakers near the serial number actually says SDA-SRS 2 ... nevertheless, the inside of the cabinets have stickers referring to 2.3 - and I have the donuts drivers as per the gimod pics.

    I Pulled the passive woofer out and had a look at the crossover, removed and re-attached each removable connector and all fit tightly - generally the crossover and plate looked ok to me - which by now you may have gathered, really doesn't mean much ... .c6mgwa64u4kd.jpg


    u26dbv8os24y.jpg

    I'll have look at the tweeters, to see if the poly switch has been removed.

    So, here's my dumb question for the day - other than listening, is there a way to tell if a tweeter is blown ?

    Amp is parasound 1500
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    The polyswitch is located on the crossover board in position P1. It affects all tweeters and you can't tell if it's bad by looking at it.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • SchurkeySchurkey Posts: 1,712
    edited October 2
    For testing purposes, I'd play treble-heavy music, and listen to each tweeter individually via a paper-towel cardboard core. If they're ALL dead in the cabinet, bypass the polyswitch and re-test. An ohmmeter across the tweeter connections (after you remove the wires) will show whether the voice-coil is open, or has an approximately-correct DC resistance.

    If I were upgrading crossovers anyway, and replacing the tweeters anyway...yeah, I'd TL them. It would require some additional midwoofers.

    A quick test with an ohmmeter would reveal a broken conductor in the SDA cable, and I've heard of the SDA cable sockets in the speaker cabinet having loose connections. Figuring out the total lack of SDA effect :wink: shouldn't be too hard. (Don't forget to look at the preamp to see if it's set to mono; and verify that + and - is correct from source to speakers.)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,044
    Schurkey wrote: »

    If I were upgrading crossovers anyway, and replacing the tweeters anyway...yeah, I'd TL them. It would require some additional midwoofers.

    Crazy talk.
    Thats 8 mw6510 and 6 tweeters alone that's a substantial outlay of cash and mw6510 are not easy to find.
    Plus your right speaker becomes the left and vice versa.
    2.3 are fine speakers on their own. Recap the xo and get better resistors. Call it a day.
  • TNTsTunesTNTsTunes Posts: 488
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Schurkey wrote: »

    If I were upgrading crossovers anyway, and replacing the tweeters anyway...yeah, I'd TL them. It would require some additional midwoofers.

    Crazy talk.
    Thats 8 mw6510 and 6 tweeters alone that's a substantial outlay of cash and mw6510 are not easy to find.
    Plus your right speaker becomes the left and vice versa.
    2.3 are fine speakers on their own. Recap the xo and get better resistors. Call it a day.

    MW6510's aren't hard to get, I just bought 14 original NOS ones today. They said there are 16 NOS ones left and that they have found a supplier that should be producing 200 new reproduction ones before the holidays. It sounds like they will be available just like the 6502, 6503 and 6511's have been for awhile now.

    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

  • la2vegasla2vegas Posts: 2,046
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Schurkey wrote: »

    If I were upgrading crossovers anyway, and replacing the tweeters anyway...yeah, I'd TL them. It would require some additional midwoofers.

    Crazy talk.
    Thats 8 mw6510 and 6 tweeters alone that's a substantial outlay of cash and mw6510 are not easy to find.
    Plus your right speaker becomes the left and vice versa.
    2.3 are fine speakers on their own. Recap the xo and get better resistors. Call it a day.

    I guy near me had 6 MW6510's for 10 bucks a pop. I posted about them but nobody showed any interest in them. I would have helped in securing them for a fellow polkie.
    2.3TL, 3.1TL, SDA II, 7B, 7C, 7 series 2, 10B, 5JR+, 5JR, 5A, 4.5, RTA 11T X2, RTA 8T, LSI9, LSI7, RTI A7, RTI A3, CSI A4, CSI A6, F/XI A4, RTI4. That's all for now.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,044
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Schurkey wrote: »

    If I were upgrading crossovers anyway, and replacing the tweeters anyway...yeah, I'd TL them. It would require some additional midwoofers.

    Crazy talk.
    Thats 8 mw6510 and 6 tweeters alone that's a substantial outlay of cash and mw6510 are not easy to find.
    Plus your right speaker becomes the left and vice versa.
    2.3 are fine speakers on their own. Recap the xo and get better resistors. Call it a day.

    MW6510's aren't hard to get, I just bought 14 original NOS ones today. They said there are 16 NOS ones left and that they have found a supplier that should be producing 200 new reproduction ones before the holidays. It sounds like they will be available just like the 6502, 6503 and 6511's have been for awhile now.


    Well that is great news! It wasn't always like that.

  • Thanks for all the info - poly switches looked fine. I am making some progress though - adjusted the speaker placement pulling out from the wall a good foot and in so doing noticed the cables were plugged into the high frequency upper posts, where-as the manual recommends connecting to the lower posts for regular (non-bi-wiring) setup. With the jumpers on, thinking the results should be the same either way, but either the placement or the change of wiring has improved the sound...
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    You CANNOT tell if the polyswitches are bad by looking at them.

    SDA's perform best between 5 to 6 inches off the back wall. At a foot away they lose a lot of bass.

    It makes absolutely no difference if the speaker cables are connected to the top or bottom posts with the jumpers in place.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Thanks, I misread your earlier post F1nut. At this point think I'll bypass the poly switch and see what difference that makes, then install new tweeters when they arrive and compare.
  • OK, as an update, I replaced the tweeters with the RD194s. Right speaker sounds better, left is not producing the same treble as the right - tried multiple albums and two sources (vinyl and HIFI tidal stream). Same result. I haven't tried another amp yet ...

    So, I'm going to bypass the polyswitch on the left crossover for now - expecting a quick fix for the treble issue.

    I'm looking to recap next. I see the parts list for sonicap thanks to Gimpod. looks like about $200 US (caps only). My three part question for the forum experts is:

    1) do I need to worry about replacing resisters ?

    2) anyone know of a parts list for caps other than sonicap for 2.3 SRS ? Nothing against/no experience with sonicap, just want to be thorough and compare. I saw a thread on this forum that seemed to point to a link, but the link was dead. For example, I looked for the recommended 4.4uf 200 vdc Sonicap equivalent from clarity caps, but couldn't find exact same uf values - Clarity caps did show a "4.7uf" at 250 or 400vdc - do you just go with the closest uf value you can find ? assume more vdc never hurts (other than the wallet) but perhaps doesn't help either ??

    3) any recommendations as to capacitor brand ? I don't mind spending some extra - even say double or more, if its going to sound noticeably better - If I'm going to spend the time hunched over soldering anyways some extra dollars may not be a big deal.

    Appreciate any advice, or a pointer to another thread if this has been addressed before.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 670
    I've read that the crossovers for the 2.3 and the 2.3TL are completely different, but the one pictured above LOOKS identical to my 2.3TL board. The difference I can see is that my wiring harnesses have mostly white wires with colored markers (on the tweeter harness and to the binding posts/interconnect), black and white to the stereo drivers, and blue and green to the dimensional drivers.

    I have noticed a difference between the highs from one speaker to the other. I suspect I may have a similar polyswitch issues. I'm just going to replace everything (tweeters, crossovers, wiring, interconnect). But hey, I would also burn my house to the ground just to kill a spider. HAHAHAHAHA
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    edited October 12
    One quick example of the differences, the 2.3 has a 4.4uF cap, the 2.3TL does not. They are totally and completely different crossovers. Even a quick look at the schematics will tell you that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    edited October 12
    1. Yes, the resistors should be upgraded to Mills.
    2. Sonicap caps are a great match for SDA's.
    3. See above.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 670
    F1nut wrote: »
    One quick example of the differences, the 2.3 has a 4.4uF cap, the 2.3TL does not. They are totally and completely different crossovers. Even a quick look at the schematics will tell you that.

    Yeah, I figured there were aspects that differed between the two that weren't immediately apparent looking at the small image above. I think you may have mentioned the difference in a thread somewhere, Jesse. I am right in the middle of my 2.3TL upgrade, and I have read scores of comments from you that have really helped me out. Not to mention your comment in a thread I made back in 2010 that stuck with me all these years and inspired me to return to Club Polk and finally start this project. :p
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • Thanks Jesse, and Viking64 - I soldered over the polyswitch on the left and my what a difference. Its silly really - like mono to stereo almost !

    Can now definitely hear the sda effect too .. there is a marked difference in plugging it in and out that with the left treble lacking I really couldn't notice. I'll go ahead and order the sonicaps and resisters as per the recommendation - I expect this to be relatively a smaller improvement at this point - but this is now officially an addiction.

    Can't say how much I appreciate all the advice! These little (lol) 2.3's really are phenomenal speakers.

    I think after the recap, room treatment will be next on the list - bass traps and sound absorption etc - its an odd shaped room with a low and irregular ceiling - 7.5 footish on average. I'm thinking since the speakers are basically sitting on a cement basement floor (with perhaps an 8th or quarter inch veneer floor covering glued to concrete) that the isolation spikes may be of little benefit ?

    couple of pics to follow - as always open to any recommendations, always appreciated.
  • a9c3mlv2dreh.jpg
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 670
    I had to do a double-take as I forget that the original 2.3's are a mirror image from the TL's. :o

    I once had a guy that worked at a Polk dealer tell me that mine were placed wrong! I should have asked him how far I should toe them in and how many holes should I drill to port the cabinets? :p
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    I think you will be amazed at the improvement after the upgrade.

    You likely realize this already, but that pool table is really going to mess with the sound.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • VR3VR3 Posts: 21,839
    Just clear up confusion, it is listed that way for simplicity (pricing) etc. Different crossovers.
    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Yep, but the pool table has got to stay - its never going to be a perfect listening room - but working for as good as a basement pool room can be. Sounds best when you step to the table to break, which I can live with. Hallway to the right of the right speaker I think may be doing as much damage as the table - thinking no solution to that. Other corners, kind of where. Lots of hard surfaces.

    Do you just get some foam and place around - corners (bass trap?) ? There is a fair bit of unwanted reverb and /or echo happening for sure. Any recommendations ?

  • lol on the port holes Viking - what's your listening room look like? Jesse - really like to see your main rig too !
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    My listening room is the living room and it's far from perfect.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,246
    Viking64 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    One quick example of the differences, the 2.3 has a 4.4uF cap, the 2.3TL does not. They are totally and completely different crossovers. Even a quick look at the schematics will tell you that.

    Yeah, I figured there were aspects that differed between the two that weren't immediately apparent looking at the small image above. I think you may have mentioned the difference in a thread somewhere, Jesse. I am right in the middle of my 2.3TL upgrade, and I have read scores of comments from you that have really helped me out. Not to mention your comment in a thread I made back in 2010 that stuck with me all these years and inspired me to return to Club Polk and finally start this project. :p

    Thanks, it's nice to know I'm more than just a pretty face.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,044
    F1nut wrote: »
    Viking64 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    One quick example of the differences, the 2.3 has a 4.4uF cap, the 2.3TL does not. They are totally and completely different crossovers. Even a quick look at the schematics will tell you that.

    Yeah, I figured there were aspects that differed between the two that weren't immediately apparent looking at the small image above. I think you may have mentioned the difference in a thread somewhere, Jesse. I am right in the middle of my 2.3TL upgrade, and I have read scores of comments from you that have really helped me out. Not to mention your comment in a thread I made back in 2010 that stuck with me all these years and inspired me to return to Club Polk and finally start this project. :p

    Thanks, it's nice to know I'm more than just a pretty face.

    Good thing as that mug won't get you far
    lol
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 670
    pitdogg2 wrote: »

    Good thing as that mug won't get you far
    lol
    For what it's worth: I have seen the image in his profile pic elsewhere, so I'm pretty sure it's not him. :p
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,044
    Viking64 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »

    Good thing as that mug won't get you far
    lol
    For what it's worth: I have seen the image in his profile pic elsewhere, so I'm pretty sure it's not him. :p

    If you are talking about the avatar no its not him. I've seen the mug shot :s
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