Recommended setup and future amp(s)

Currently I am running an Onkyo TX sr606 7.1 which if I am not mistaken does 105watt output(advertised) per channel

It currently powers (front 2x,center 1x ,surround 2x, sub 1x)
  • Polk Monitor 70's
  • Polk rm302
  • Polk m10
  • Polk psw10

I've purchased 2 RTiA9's to replace the Monitor70's. I've read here I will probably be disappointed in the sound since my HT receiver doesn't have enough juice. So my first question is
  • I was going to add the RTiA9's and move the Monitor70's to the sides or surrounds as im only using 5.1 and this would set me to 7.1, is this just a junk idea since the 4 large tower speakers will not get enough power?
  • What recommendations do you have to power them all in a 7.1 setup?
  • Alternative ideas welcome.
Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10

Comments

  • scubalabscubalab Posts: 1,932
    That receiver does not appear to have pre-outs, so if you do get separate amplification, you would need to replace it with one that does, or go directly to a pre/pro.

    I will say, that even the best receivers and speakers will sound better with dedicated amplification. I was driving Boston VR-M speakers with an Anthem MRX-500 receiver. It was a great pairing. I was floored at the improvement I heard (even my then 11 year old daughter heard an improvement) when I added a Rotel RMB-1075 amp.

    Although I haven't heard the RTiA9's, I have heard that they thrive on good clean power, so separate amplification will only improve things. You could start with a nice used 7.1 channel receiver with pre-outs and a 2 or 3 channel amp (B&K, Rotel, or Parasound would be a good starting point) for the RTiA9's (and your center if you go 3-channels). You could leave the surrounds and rear speakers powered off the receiver since they typically do not need the separate amplification as much as your front sound stage.

    I'd also recommend upgrading your center. You'd be surprised at how much work the center channel gets. The CSiA6 would be ideal and would be matched nicely with the A9s.

    Best of luck, and welcome to the forum!

    Be warned... the rabbit hole has opened, and it does no good to your wallet.
  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 1,568
    edited September 13
    I am one of the least experienced of those on this forum, but I will chime in anyway with what I expect you will hear from others.

    They will want to know your budget, room size, percentage of music versus home theater.

    I don't think your AVR has pre-outs so you won't be able to add an amp to it. It is definitely underpowered for a 5.1 setup with M70's, let alone a 7.1.

    I think you will gain more by upgrading your center channel and sub, rather than changing your front speakers. Especially if it's mainly used for tv/movies.

    (EDIT) - yeah Scuba sniped me and said it better.
    Modest HT - Sony STRDA3700ES, RT800i, CS400i center, RT25i surrounds, Def Tech PF 15TL+, Belkin PF30, Sony BDP-S390.
    Bedroom - HK AVR 340, Monitor 5jr+ Series2, CS245 center, Yamaha YST-SW160, Furez 10/2, Roku 3
  • Well, could I get the system rocking for under $3280(4k cad). I'm just one of those people I suppose who don't like spending money unless I am getting a sick deal. I can up the budget but lets see what this can do with assistance here.

    My audio is mostly for movies and PS4(games).

    I think I will be changing the receiver as it takes forever to put the video from my PS4 onto the TV, the receiver clicks on and off(internally) a bunch of times in seemly random amounts of time until about 2-6 minutes passes and I finally get an image. Sound comes on usually immediately.

    I would want to be future proofing so atmos dts:x is a must. Basically what I am hearing is whatever I grab needs pre-outs?

    Also what is involved in a pre/pro setup(links more than welcome)

    Thanks again.
    Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,428
    The last 4 or 5 years has shown it is next to impossible to future proof an AVR. The first thing to decide is how many speakers do you want to run, or better yet spend money on.

    The first thing I would buy, if I were you is a different sub. You will be surprised how big of an improvement it will make. You will be looking at $500 and up, depending on room size. Bigger room means a bigger sub, which cost more money.

    If your happy with your current center, keep it. You really won't know what you're not hearing, until you actually hear it.

    AVR's, with pre-outs, and capable of running 9 speakers: new pricing will be about $1500 to start. Based on U.S. Dollars. Probably stay away from the Onkyo's, for a number of reasons.

    I've spent a least half your budget, and as you can see this is an expensive hobby. Still, I would start here, and see what it sounds like before going for the A9's. Probably even grab an amp to try with what you have before changing the front three.

  • scubalabscubalab Posts: 1,932
    edited September 14
    You could do a lot with your budget, especially if you're not opposed to buying some of your gear used. I can say you get tremendous bang for your buck going used. My entire HT, with the exception of the projector, screen, pre/pro, the subs, and the Panamax was built by purchasing used.

    My recommendations would be to stick with your Monitor 70's and M10's for surrounds for now, upgrade your center and subwoofer, and get a pre/pro and amplifier. You'll be surprised at what that will do. To me, the center channel in a HT is the most important speaker. A good, hefty center will do wonders for dialogue. Second, a good sub (SVS, Hsu, PSB, Epik) will really knock your socks off.

    Pre/Pro:

    $1300 - https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamcxa5000bl/yamaha-cx-a5000-11.2-channel-av-preamplifier-processor/1.html

    or

    $1,300 - https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marav7702mkii/marantz-av7702mkii-11.2-ch-networking-a/v-preamp/processor/1.html#!specifications

    Amp:

    $1,350 - https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marmm8077/marantz-mm8077-7-ch-x-150-watts-power-amplifier/1.html

    or

    $1,335 (used) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-Reference-200-7-7-Channel-Power-Amplifier-Excellent-Condition-/122702760163?epid=66795699&hash=item1c91a788e3:g:GeIAAOSwtS1Zne1x
    You can usually find the 200.7 for under a grand. That's what I have and I believe I paid around $800 for mine and love it.

    Center:

    $200 - http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/178627/polk-csi-a6-for-sale#latest

    Sub (depends on room size):

    $500 - https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-1000

    $539 - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

    $799 - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

    $800 - https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000

    Again, go used on some of this, and you can save quite a bit. Likely enough to replace all of your speakers.

    As a reference for price going used, I have this gear:
    • Marantz 7702
    • B&K Ref 200.7
    • Polk LSi7 Fronts
    • Polk LSiM704c Center
    • Polk LSi/FX Surrounds
    • Polk 700-LS In-Ceiling Rears
    • Crown XLS-2500 Amp for Passive DIY subs
    • Dual 18" Dayton Ultimax 6cf Sealed subs

    All in, I've spent around $3,600 - not too far off of your budget. The DIY subs and Crown Amp account for about $1,000 of that.

    If I were to have purchased all of that gear new, it would have been close to $9,000... Food for thought!
  • Thanks for the replies. Looking at the pre/pro items I was curious if one could grab this item to power their front speakers after a pre-amp.

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tulun-play-2-Channel-Professional-Power-Amplifier-AMP-2X600W-8-2X1050W-4-/122690484187?hash=item1c90ec37db:g:LVwAAOSwy3NZZBV1

    Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,428
    You really want to stay away from pro audio gear for HT use. A lot of people will argue that it works, what's wrong with it.

    Short answer is home audio gear is designed for in home use, and pro gear really isn't.

    If you go the pre/pro route, you'll need an amplifier for each channel you want to run. So 5 speakers will require a 5 channel amp, or a combination of mono, stereo, or 3 channel amps to do the job.
  • I went with the Marantz 7703 from accessories4less for my pre-amp. Excited, should arrive friday. Now I need to find some power.
    Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10
  • scubalabscubalab Posts: 1,932
    ^^^ Great choice on the processor. Get yourself an amp now and see what it can do with your speakers!

    Best of luck!
  • Okay so I've been doing more reading. I have more questions. I'm at work so i had to guestimate room sizes
    • The RTiA9 are rated up to 500w, if i power them with 500w is that potentially dangerous for them?
    • The room is i think around 1500ft³(guess) I've read powering the RTiA9 to 500 might be overkill? I think my couch is about 12ft(guess) back from the fronts at the moment.
    • The RTiA9 are rated for 500w, the Monitor70 is rated to 275, if i got a 4 channel 300w would that kill my Monitor70's?
    • What is the downside to using professional gear? Also if not specifically stated professional how do I know if a piece is good for home theater or not?
    • What is bridging, do I need two seperate units for it or can you bridge channels in one unit, for example turn a 6 channel parasound into a 3 channel bridged?

    I think at the moment I am trying to find a 2channel for the RTiA9's and a 5 channel for the remainder if anyone wants to recommend. Its mostly for movies and ps4.
    Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 12,646
    I have a 405wpc 5channel Sunfire amp powering all of my speakers, and it sounds great.

    The speakers will only take what they need to operate to their full potential. What is important is for the power to be available for them to use, hence the recommendation of a separate amplifier to power speakers.

    I generally recommend getting a 200wpc amp of how many channels you wish. This is generally when people can hear a clear and distinct improvement in sound.

    Forget about bridging, biwiring/biamping, and getting professional gear to run home gear. Will it work? of course, but it does more harm than good.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • MadHaTrMadHaTr Posts: 6
    I went for the Sunfire TGA-7401 400wpc. I barely had enough time to hook it up today and test it briefly with the movie Dredd haha. I didn't even get time to run the audio setup with mic before jetting to work.

    So tonight I set the room up as I need it and use the mic for setup. I already heard a massive improvement, i was really happy. Honestly now I'm gonna need to buy a house so i can do what needs to be done for a good setup. I did notice as was mentioned here my center speaker doesn't seem to cut it anymore.

    Randomness I was working with a guy from Sikorsky tonight, and found our he is a massive audiophile. He was talking about things way out of my depth, definitely going to have to pick his brain tomorrow. I didn't ask but he for sure has over 25 years experience. He'd fit right in here I'm sure, i'm going to mention this place to him.

    I'll show a picture of my room later once I clean it up. Sadly I don't have a decent tv stand so my center channel is gonna be on the floor i think.
    Marantz AV7703 11.2 pre, Sunfire TGA-7401 7-ch x 400, 2xPolk RTiA9, Polk RM302, 2x Polk Monitor70, 2x Polk M10, Polk PSW10
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 12,646
    Congratulations and enjoy!!!
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
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