Turn my AVR into Preamp?

KingkwasKingkwas Posts: 50
edited August 26 in Electronics
Shortly after buying my Marantz AVR I learned abt the superiority of using an amp.

Can I just turn my Marantz SR5011 into a Preamp? Is there a drastic benefit to an actual Preamp?
AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D

Comments

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,338
    If it has preamp outputs then it can be used as a pre. Most likely a dedicated HT processor (pre) will be better than an AVR used as a pre. It was for me.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable for preamp modules

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • dolbyddolbyd Posts: 78
    Your Marantz has full pre outs on it. I would add an amp for sure.
    The Marantz is a good unit and will be a great Pre/Pro for you.
    I have a 5010 in the MB and I run a Adcom 7500 with it.
    Your LsiMs will be a lot happier.

    LS90
    RT16
    CS350LS
    RT2000P
    CS1000p
    RTiA9 x4
    CSiA6
    SVS PC-2000(2)
    DSW440
    LSi7
    LSiC
  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 6,880
    edited August 27
    dolbyd wrote: »
    Your Marantz has full pre outs on it. I would add an amp for sure.
    The Marantz is a good unit and will be a great Pre/Pro for you.
    I have a 5010 in the MB and I run a Adcom 7500 with it.
    Your LsiMs will be a lot happier.

    Agreed, SR5010/Parasound HCA-1200II combo on my fronts and lets just say...superb combination. Just imparts a fine signature to the sound and it's a Marantz front end, quality in and quality out is the best approach. Also, using the amplifier on the mains means the AVR only has to drive the center and rears which is can do very effectively well since it doesn't have to drive the SDAs directly. In other words, the amp takes the load off the AVR for the big show speakers and it has an easier time working with whats left.

    Full disclosure, I've NEVER had speakers hooked up to the front speaker outputs on the 5010 as the amplifier has way more jam for the SDAs than any modern day AVR could hope to muster.
    Post edited by nbrowser on
    Living room: Samsung UN55KU7000 4K UHD HDR 55 inch TV, Marantz CD6004, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, Parasound zPhono, Mac Mini, Oppo BDP-93, XBox One S 2Tb, Kenwood DPX792BH car deck for radio purposes, Marantz SR5010 AVR, Parasound HCA-1200II, Front SDA 2 modded with Larrys Rings and RD0-194-1 tweeters, Rear Onkyo SKF-4800 Towers, Center CSiA6, BOOM Tannoy TS2.12 Sub, Audioquest Evergreen interconnects just about everywhere except from AVR to amp, MIT Terminator 4, MIT AVT3 speaker cables with extra terminals covered up Monitor 5 Jr+ in the wings for a center channel.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 3,668
    I'll be honest...I went from a marantz nr1403 with an external amp for the mains to a Rotel RSP-1069 pre/pro (no built in amp) and then back to a marantz sr5007. The system is for netflix tv and music, and if anything the marantz sounds slightly better all around. The two channel music might have been slightly smoother on the rotel, maybe, but tv/movies sound sooo much better on the marantz. So I would just add an amp for the 703s and call it.

    FYI I finally upgrade to a rotel rb-993 200 wpc amp for the LSiM fronts, and that's when those 703s just really woke up. So I would recommend either a rotel rb-991 (the two channel version) or newer equivalent, or a parasound hca 1200 or 1500. Your ears will thank you...
    HT Rig:
    Yamaha RX-A1010; Parasound HCA-1000a; Arcam rDac; Mains: PSB Imagine Mini + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Def Tech Procenter 1000; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; Sony BDP-S390, FireTV gen 2

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Audiosource Amp Two, Dynaudio Emit 10, NHT Super One CI, ACI Titan subwoofer, FireTV, Arcam rDac; Bryson BPD-1
  • KingkwasKingkwas Posts: 50
    I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx
    AVR: Marantz SR 5011
    L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
    C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
    R: Def Tech
    Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
    DVD: Oppo UDP 203
    TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,338
    Good answer, pitdogg2.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable for preamp modules

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,621
    The rabbit hole awaits young Skywalker. lol
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • I used to have a carver pre and when it puked (way too expensive to repair) I started using an older Integra dtr-7.1AVR receiver as a pre. I do think that the stand alone pre was a much better set up quality wise than the AVR. There are modern conveniences on the AVR that are kinda cool like zone 2 for the deck speakers outside but I will eventually change back to a stand alone pre when the wallet allows.
  • LeftCoastLeftCoast Posts: 369
    Many of the flagship AVR do everything in a very impressive fashion.
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 61
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,621
    delkal wrote: »
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
    No, most won't say you need to spend big bucks, just the opposite actually. My bet, the pre will make a bigger impact on the overall sound. Preferably a tubed pre.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 488
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,000
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Kingkwas wrote: »
    I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx

    An AVR is like a jack if all trades and a master of none.

    A dedicated pre is just that dedicated to be a master of that function. Shorter signal paths, better implementation of the chips used for their purpose. Better components all around.

    An AVR in most cases has a price point it must meet. You take a 1500.00 pre-amp and a 1500.00 AVR that pre-amp will run circles around that AVR. It will also have a much lower noise floor than the AVR.

    Let me add some uber upper AVR's 5-6g range can be a whole different beast, but on a whole a dedicated pre-amp will out perform in most cases.
    @Kingkwas: one step at a time.

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 4 Evidence - 1 at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Winter, 2017 I hope
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,000
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 4 Evidence - 1 at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Winter, 2017 I hope
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 488
    edited November 11
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,000
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
    please accept my upfront apology for sounding snobby. I would not know if a pre/pro* IS an upgrade from using an AVR as the same* - I've always had pre/pros; never had an AVR nor used same as a pre/pro though it makes sense.

    Good listening all, Tony

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 4 Evidence - 1 at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Winter, 2017 I hope
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,621
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.

    Most people don't know what they are listening for, which is why some can't hear a difference. How do you control volume with the BR and SACD connected to an amp ? Are you using an integrated ?
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 488
    Technically, I would say it was an integrated. It's a power amp that has a volume control and 4 inputs.

    evkmb0f2fz0b.jpg
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,621
    Gotcha.....looks sweet too.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,071
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.

    This is exactly why I no longer have a Parasound P5 in my 2ch system.

    It had to go back for service and while it was out, I just hooked my Oppo right up my amp. After some extended listening sessions, I made the tough decision to put the P5 up for sale.
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku 3 : Oppo BDP-103 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 3,302
    Wow !! What a BEAUTIFUL work of Audio ART !!
    That Amp is one I've never seen before.

    NICE !
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies . I am glad to be a part of a select group that tries to take our auditory and visual senses to a higher level: we EXPERIENCE them.... GOT SDA?... Got TFM ?
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 488
    Thank you! I have been very happy with it. The build quality is excellent. Even the remote is aluminum. HAHAHA It produces more volume than an old metalhead like me can tolerate, and the sound it makes with my 2.3TL's is gorgeous, and I have yet to add my V3 crossovers, 198's, and dreadnaught into the mix.
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Silk Audio MS38SE Tube Amp
    Yamaha DSP A-1 AV Amp
    Panasonic TC-P65S2 Plasma TV
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