Might pull the trigger on Hafler Amps

doggie750doggie750 Posts: 1,131
Hafler DH 200 and DH500
I read mixed reviews online and just wondering any thoughts from Polks here. Thank you.
Godspeed,
D0661E

AVR:Pioneer Elite SC-07
Surrounds: RTis
2channel:Rti100 (carver driven
Sub:SVS PB12-Plus/2
Dedicated AMPs:Adcom GFA535, 2xCarver 1.5t, Carver m1.0t
Wsrn:Hitachi ultra vision LCD60, 32XBR400
PowerConditioner: MonsterC HTS5100
PS3, Toshiba HD A2, etc: SonySACD/ Panasonic gears DIVX.


MR3LIGION: Polkaudio; GSXR; E46; Reeftank;
Odyclub; Xsimulator; Sony; Zune; Canon

Comments

  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 2,700
    i have owned the hafler dh 200, nice sounding amp you can fry an egg on.
    Main system
    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vopin&1162599347 Freelance reviewer for StereoMojo
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 1,965
    edited August 9
    Beware of DC offset on Haflers of this vintage. I own a XL600 and it isn't going anywhere. These amps when freshened up are still very relevant.



    Main System: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's
    Wire: Wireworld Eclipse IC, Audio Art IC3; Speaker cable LA International SS-800; PS Audio AC-3 power cords; All into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage.
  • machonemachone Posts: 768
    I have an upgraded DH500 and it is sweet.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony DVP-NS575P DVD Player

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • doggie750doggie750 Posts: 1,131
    Machone-
    Is the stock DH500 not good enough? Why need the upgrade? Cost to upgrade? Is it simply changing the cap? Thanks
    Godspeed,
    D0661E

    AVR:Pioneer Elite SC-07
    Surrounds: RTis
    2channel:Rti100 (carver driven
    Sub:SVS PB12-Plus/2
    Dedicated AMPs:Adcom GFA535, 2xCarver 1.5t, Carver m1.0t
    Wsrn:Hitachi ultra vision LCD60, 32XBR400
    PowerConditioner: MonsterC HTS5100
    PS3, Toshiba HD A2, etc: SonySACD/ Panasonic gears DIVX.


    MR3LIGION: Polkaudio; GSXR; E46; Reeftank;
    Odyclub; Xsimulator; Sony; Zune; Canon
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 7,111
    edited August 10
    yes caps do not last indefinitely, and in some amps will destroy anything downstream when they fail.
  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 443
    IMO the DH220 (P225) is better than the DH200. The DC offset is adjustable or easier to adjust on the DH220 vs the DH200. You can easily check the DC offset with a voltmeter.

    DH200's have been going for about $125, and often need some work even though they "sound great". DH220's have been going for $150-200 with minor to no work needed. I have a DH220, and IMO it punches above its weight, and I love the bass sound from it. A similar power newer Krell is more detailed but also a little harsh, and initially has more punch to start, but it falls off quicker than the Hafler. Similar power Parasounds have are more detailed, and IMO a step up. The bass is about the same, but there is a richness to Hafler I like. The Parasound wins though for the greater detail.

    They will get quite warm while idle. Make sure both sides are the same temperature. if you have an IR thermometer check the temps. It can be a sign things are out of spec. I forget what the base line temps are, but they are online somewhere, or in an AudioKarma thread. Some people tweak DH220's to run hotter and potentially sound better, but that can also age components faster so be ware.
  • machonemachone Posts: 768
    doggie750 wrote: »
    Machone-
    Is the stock DH500 not good enough? Why need the upgrade? Cost to upgrade? Is it simply changing the cap? Thanks

    Good when new but most are 30 years old and need attention.
    The good news is Musical Concepts has been tweaking their upgrade kits for years and they will transform a Hafler.
    The cost is significant. With new driver boards, power supply caps and recommended replacement of the thermal overload switches you will be in around $710 if you do the work. Add around $200 if they do the install plus shipping
    I'm sure one could change caps and get it going but their driver boards move the Hafler into another class.
    Depending what you can find one for plus the upgrades you will have a killer amp for way less less than $1500.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony DVP-NS575P DVD Player

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 1,965
    Machone, do the boards come preassembled?



    Main System: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's
    Wire: Wireworld Eclipse IC, Audio Art IC3; Speaker cable LA International SS-800; PS Audio AC-3 power cords; All into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage.
  • machonemachone Posts: 768
    Stuffed and tested with the bias and dc offset set close enough for power up.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony DVP-NS575P DVD Player

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 1,267
    I have a pair of Hafler amps that will need work. One is a 220 and I thinkone is a 230. I know one is different than the other slightly, and if I recall, the 230 has Neutrik connections. Any one that is interested I'll move them CHEAP! I used the 220 for a while, but, noticed a pop through the speakers when I turned it on so I moved it to the side and never got back to it.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 443
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I have a pair of Hafler amps that will need work. One is a 220 and I think one is a 230. I know one is different than the other slightly, and if I recall, the 230 has Neutrik connections. Any one that is interested I'll move them CHEAP! I used the 220 for a while, but, noticed a pop through the speakers when I turned it on so I moved it to the side and never got back to it.

    The P230 is the later version of the "professional" rack mount version of the DH-220. The early version was the P225. According to Hafler the P230 has additional MOSFETS and larger power supply fuses.

    The pop or "thump" is normal for the DH-220 amps, and likely the P230. Usually they are turned on and left on. The DH-220 does not have relays on the speaker outputs. Relays were added to newer amps to prevent the thump. The click you hear after power up is the relays. Some high end amps today still don't have relays because they are considered something in the signal path and detrimental to sound for the purist. They are also always left on so they are at their stable state.

    Once the amps are on, you can check the DC offset with a voltmeter. Both the DC offset and bias are adjustable. on these. The DC offset is not too hard to adjust, but with the age likely harder to get perfect zero. Less than 10mV should be possible. I think I got mine to within 5mV. The bias really needs to calibrated meters, and is more difficult. Small movements to the pots create wild swings which take time to settle.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 978
    If I'm not too late, I have 2 Hafler XL-280s I'll let go. One w/ both channels working. The other, one channel stopped working, don't know why. No time to troubleshoot.

    Noteworthy audiophile stuff: The XL-280 came from the factory w/ many of the known worthwhile upgrades for the DH-200/220, etc. Of particular interest to some is a separate, complete PSU for the driver boards. Further, separate L&R transformer secondaries, bridge rectifiers, & PS filtering for the finals. The DH predecessors, to my knowledge, came w/a single PSU to handle it all.

    $225 for both plus shipping.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7 each tower's woofers has its own Rotel 98X amp, M & T has its own P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    Audio Pro SWs: front - B1.39: rear - Evidence
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Summer, 2017 I hope
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 1,965
    ^^good deal.



    Main System: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's
    Wire: Wireworld Eclipse IC, Audio Art IC3; Speaker cable LA International SS-800; PS Audio AC-3 power cords; All into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 1,267
    @pkquat Thanks for the info. Probably should pull them back out and check them out.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 978
    An addendum: 6 output devices per channel versus 4 per chnl for the DH 200/220.

    Bridgeable into 4 ohms. I refer you to the manual for comprehensive specs.

    It's no coincidence Musical Fidelity DH driver boards are VERY similar looking to the factory XL-280 boards.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7 each tower's woofers has its own Rotel 98X amp, M & T has its own P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    Audio Pro SWs: front - B1.39: rear - Evidence
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Summer, 2017 I hope
  • machonemachone Posts: 768
    Pull the trigger
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony DVP-NS575P DVD Player

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • doggie750doggie750 Posts: 1,131
    Zip code 94544. Total cost? Thank you

    gp4jesus wrote: »
    If I'm not too late, I have 2 Hafler XL-280s I'll let go. One w/ both channels working. The other, one channel stopped working, don't know why. No time to troubleshoot.

    Noteworthy audiophile stuff: The XL-280 came from the factory w/ many of the known worthwhile upgrades for the DH-200/220, etc. Of particular interest to some is a separate, complete PSU for the driver boards. Further, separate L&R transformer secondaries, bridge rectifiers, & PS filtering for the finals. The DH predecessors, to my knowledge, came w/a single PSU to handle it all.

    $225 for both plus shipping.

    Godspeed,
    D0661E

    AVR:Pioneer Elite SC-07
    Surrounds: RTis
    2channel:Rti100 (carver driven
    Sub:SVS PB12-Plus/2
    Dedicated AMPs:Adcom GFA535, 2xCarver 1.5t, Carver m1.0t
    Wsrn:Hitachi ultra vision LCD60, 32XBR400
    PowerConditioner: MonsterC HTS5100
    PS3, Toshiba HD A2, etc: SonySACD/ Panasonic gears DIVX.


    MR3LIGION: Polkaudio; GSXR; E46; Reeftank;
    Odyclub; Xsimulator; Sony; Zune; Canon
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 978
    edited August 16
    Final estimate ~$265?

    Based upon 60lb weight, crunching numbers at the USPS web site. Hafta box 'em up & head to post office.

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7 each tower's woofers has its own Rotel 98X amp, M & T has its own P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    Audio Pro SWs: front - B1.39: rear - Evidence
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Summer, 2017 I hope
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 978
    doggie750 wrote: »
    Zip code 94544. Total cost? Thank you

    gp4jesus wrote: »
    If I'm not too late, I have 2 Hafler XL-280s I'll let go. One w/ both channels working. The other, one channel stopped working, don't know why. No time to troubleshoot.

    Noteworthy audiophile stuff: The XL-280 came from the factory w/ many of the known worthwhile upgrades for the DH-200/220, etc. Of particular interest to some is a separate, complete PSU for the driver boards. Further, separate L&R transformer secondaries, bridge rectifiers, & PS filtering for the finals. The DH predecessors, to my knowledge, came w/a single PSU to handle it all.

    $225 for both plus shipping.

    Yes? No? Maybe...
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Charter HD Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7 each tower's woofers has its own Rotel 98X amp, M & T has its own P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    Audio Pro SWs: front - B1.39: rear - Evidence
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped, Summer, 2017 I hope
  • doggie750doggie750 Posts: 1,131
    edited August 18
    I pass....I appreciate the deal though.
    Godspeed,
    D0661E

    AVR:Pioneer Elite SC-07
    Surrounds: RTis
    2channel:Rti100 (carver driven
    Sub:SVS PB12-Plus/2
    Dedicated AMPs:Adcom GFA535, 2xCarver 1.5t, Carver m1.0t
    Wsrn:Hitachi ultra vision LCD60, 32XBR400
    PowerConditioner: MonsterC HTS5100
    PS3, Toshiba HD A2, etc: SonySACD/ Panasonic gears DIVX.


    MR3LIGION: Polkaudio; GSXR; E46; Reeftank;
    Odyclub; Xsimulator; Sony; Zune; Canon
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