Amp and Pre vs Integrated
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rburgess714
Posts: 616
What are the pros/cons between an integrated amp and pre amp and amp. Currently have yamaha aventage rx-a1060 as pre/pro and parassound a23. Considering adding a pre with ht bypass for better 2 channel or selling the a23 and getting integrated with ht bypass.
Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
Comments
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The most common pro I see about separates is you can change one piece or the other chasing your sound. One example might be a tube pre amp with a SS amp, which many feel is the best of both worlds. I've heard others say, if one piece breaks down you'll still have tunes. That assumes you have a spare pre or amp, which most folks do not, so I do not think that one has much merit.
On the other hand having a perfectly matched pre and amp with extremely short signal paths and one less set of interconnects has a good deal of merit. Some SS integrated amps utilize a tube pre amp, so again, possibly the best of both worlds.
In years gone by good separates were generally of higher quality than integrated amps, but these days there are true high end integrated amps that easily out perform a good number of separates.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I would add that the problem you have with an integrated is in the digital
realm if you like to keep up w/ the Joneses. -
The Anthem 225 integrated I am using now is outstanding sound wise. Nothing fancy or high tech about it for sure. Obviously the less is more design is all about quality and performance. Anyway, I put my separates in storage.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
The most common pro I see about separates is you can change one piece or the other chasing your sound. One example might be a tube pre amp with a SS amp, which many feel is the best of both worlds. I've heard others say, if one piece breaks down you'll still have tunes. That assumes you have a spare pre or amp, which most folks do not, so I do not think that one has much merit.
On the other hand having a perfectly matched pre and amp with extremely short signal paths and one less set of interconnects has a good deal of merit. Some SS integrated amps utilize a tube pre amp, so again, possibly the best of both worlds.
In years gone by good separates were generally of higher quality than integrated amps, but these days there are true high end integrated amps that easily out perform a good number of separates.
Appreciate the feedback, sounds like I can't go wrong either way.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
motorhead43026 wrote: »The Anthem 225 integrated I am using now is outstanding sound wise. Nothing fancy or high tech about it for sure. Obviously the less is more design is all about quality and performance. Anyway, I put my separates in storage.
If that Anthem had a HT bypass I would seek out one of those on the used market.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
If a second system for two channel is possible I would recommend going that route. A big compromise to two channel purity in a home theater system is actually the big tv screen between the speakers.
If a second system is not feasible I would swap out the A23 for an integrated amp to keep things simple and save rack space and cabling. The Parasound integrated may be a good choice. -
If a second system for two channel is possible I would recommend going that route. A big compromise to two channel purity in a home theater system is actually the big tv screen between the speakers.
I never thought of this. Is it because the TV Screen is a large reflective surface? Can it be mitigated by the placement of speakers versus the screen?2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90/JBL SDP-55
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
If a second system for two channel is possible I would recommend going that route. A big compromise to two channel purity in a home theater system is actually the big tv screen between the speakers.
I never thought of this. Is it because the TV Screen is a large reflective surface? Can it be mitigated by the placement of speakers versus the screen?
EVERYTHING matters. That sock you are wearing? The hole on the big toe makes a difference in the sound.
Well I am doomed... my room is acoustically challenged and I am not wearing socks.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
If a second system for two channel is possible I would recommend going that route. A big compromise to two channel purity in a home theater system is actually the big tv screen between the speakers.
If a second system is not feasible I would swap out the A23 for an integrated amp to keep things simple and save rack space and cabling. The Parasound integrated may be a good choice.
I don't know how pure it can be in my space due to hard floors and large open room. I need to limit to one rig in this room. Good points on saving space and cabling.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
Here is a diagram to help:
Well done, I need to figure out how incorporate that into my next power point.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
"You got STINK FOOT!
STINK FOOT, darlin'
Your STINK FOOT puts a hurt on my nose!
STINK FOOT! STINK FOOT! I ain't lyin',
Can you rinse it off, d'you suppose?" -
rburgess714 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »The Anthem 225 integrated I am using now is outstanding sound wise. Nothing fancy or high tech about it for sure. Obviously the less is more design is all about quality and performance. Anyway, I put my separates in storage.
If that Anthem had a HT bypass I would seek out one of those on the used market.
On some older tubed pre's, ones with a standby mode, you don't need HT bypass as it will automatically pass the signal.
The integrated idea is probably your best bet if you want to improve the sound and save coin/space. Just so darn many good ones out there to decide on. If coin or space isn't of too much concern, my preference would still be a tubed pre with a SS amp. You kinda get the best of both worlds with that combo.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
the big (fundamental) pro of separate components, to me: two power supplies vs. one.
the penultimate pro, as Jesse mentioned; one more degree of freedom for the ability to combine flavors (nuances) and tune the sound.
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Went thru the same debate ended up pulling the trigger on the Parasound Halo integrated.....will give feedback after a few days with it..........
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After getting some quality time with the Rotel RA-1592, I'm loving what a good integrated can do...
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A big beefy tube integrated sure is tempting at times. Less cable, takes up less space, and a nice simplified look.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Thanks all this is good info. Less cables, rack/console space is very appealing. Having the flexibility to move components in and out is appealing as well. Too many choices.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
Went thru the same debate ended up pulling the trigger on the Parasound Halo integrated.....will give feedback after a few days with it..........
Look forward to hearing you thoughts on Halo integrated.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
rburgess714 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »The Anthem 225 integrated I am using now is outstanding sound wise. Nothing fancy or high tech about it for sure. Obviously the less is more design is all about quality and performance. Anyway, I put my separates in storage.
If that Anthem had a HT bypass I would seek out one of those on the used market.
On some older tubed pre's, ones with a standby mode, you don't need HT bypass as it will automatically pass the signal.
The integrated idea is probably your best bet if you want to improve the sound and save coin/space. Just so darn many good ones out there to decide on. If coin or space isn't of too much concern, my preference would still be a tubed pre with a SS amp. You kinda get the best of both worlds with that combo.
I know nothing about tubes but our of curiosity what manufactures would you look at for a used tubed pre with stand by mode.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
the HK 3400's are a bit of a sleeper...My 2 cents. I have owned a Harman Kardon HK 3490 2 channel receiver for quite some time now. Honestly it's a bit of a brute...120wpc into 8 ohms...it's got a real 4 ohm rating as well for being a full on receiver, AM/FM, phono in, some digital stuff and she's big in the size department and could power just about anything quite effectively and sound decent, same could be said for the full on Marantz SR6008 AVR i own too...but then comes along a rated 50wpc NAD integrated that can shock you with it's raw power...oddly rated down to 2 ohms and has loads of dynamic headroom.
That's just going on stuff I've heard and owned...ymmv.
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NAD or Parasound if one was to start over or from the beginning?
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^^Parasound would be my choice. If you have the financial means also check out the Anthem STR.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
If you're in he market for the Halo Integrated, I would encourage you to demo the Rotel RA-1592.
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Upstatemax wrote: »If you're in he market for the Halo Integrated, I would encourage you to demo the Rotel RA-1592.
Actually listened to one last week and it was just as advertised......sounded wonderful...have had good luck with the Mirage/Parasound combo in the past with a Parasound amp....and the used market for the Halo is getting a bit better as more reach the for sale ads. Think synergy plays a huge part and yes everything matters.... -
The Halo and RA-1592 are both good options. I like that the Rotel has more power but Parasound is nice as well. I just need to get a plan, stick to it and not buy more gear for awhile. Appreciate the feedback.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
I have lusted for a Luxman integrated, well, forever.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Good stuff (Luxman), then and now.
Their vacuum tube power amps were really "where it's at", though, Luxman-wise.
Gratuitous (and off-topic) aside: Only one piece of Luxman hardware here, and it's not a "separate" -- indeed, it's nothin' at all special, but I love the aesthetics of the mid-70s Luxman components.
DSC_5978 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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Parasound Halo Int has been here for a week now and is all that is advertised. Drives the Mirages M3SI quite easily and the first thing I did was disconnect the REL sub, plenty of bass without it in the mix....all audio lingo aside it sounds wonderful to these 60 yr old ears and does put a smile on my face....sources right now are a oppo 105 and a MF A1 CD PRO
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^^^ interesting as I would have guessed the Mirages are harder to drive and like power.
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I told this story a bunch of times. When mom passed I got some cash and always wanted a stereo which would suffice in the power dept. Now H/T at the time was all the rage and I went w/ what I thought was a powerful AVR. A Yamaha RX-V665 listed @90 watts. Not Mcintosh watts but divided in a such a way that when I aired out the system it clipped and went into protecto mode. I gave it a minute turned it back on and it worked. I 1st called Klipsch to see what the h/t #400 set could handle and 3 different techs said it can handle 100 true watts max, so it wasn't the speakers. Thankfully I had pre outs on this POS AVR. Thanks to some of you guys I called Audio Classics and got my got my Adcom GFA-555 and used the Yammy as the pre for a while until I got all separates. Lesson learned my opinion go w/ separates.2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-
Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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