Pioneer sc-25 pre out voltage? emotiva xpa5

VanDaManVanDaMan Posts: 33
Hi,

Recently picked up a emotiva xpa5 gen3 for my polk rtia9. It is now hooked up with my pioneer sc-25 which is 140watts per channel.

The problem I have now is that the Pioneer sounds better then the xpa5, the pioneer sounds more cleaner/powerful then the emotiva.

I recently called emotiva tech department and they are saying the Pioneer pre out voltage is not powerful enough to power the emotiva, they say it should be 1.5v for good power to power the emotiva. So what should I do? buy a new receiver? Anyone know the pre-out voltage on the Pioneer sc-25?

I've been doing some research and I was thinking of buying two Art cleanbox pro as I have the polks rtia9 bi amped, other forums say it well help boost the pre-out voltage is this true?

Thanks in advance for the help everybody.

Van

Answers

  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 2,809
    The easiest thing to do would be to sell the Emotiva rather than purchasing their processor at $2k. Try something else, at that price point I would even give the Monoprice Monolith or an Outlaw amp both made by ATI. There are many more options used as well.

    That being said I loved the way my emotiva xpa1's sounded on my rti home theater. But if it's not your thing then better off selling rather than spending more to improve something you didn't like to begin with.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,727
    edited June 18
    Lots of Emotiva owners have had issues with Pioneer and Onkyo receivers not having enough preout voltage present to get the dynamics with the external amp that they felt they should have. It appears that the sensitivity on the internal amps is a better match for their preamps in their receivers.

    Using the Art DI box or any other maker is always an option if you want to go balanced. The Behringer Ultra DI 8000 gives you 8 channels of boost to work with for around $100 on the used market. It should be noted that noise issues are always the risk when adding amp stages in any system.
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  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,013
    The Pioneer is rated at 335mV output so get the CleanBox to drive up the voltage.
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  • mantismantis Posts: 14,643
    The SC-25 has a nice amp section in it. What are you trying to drive that you need external amps?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,819
    WLDock wrote: »
    The Pioneer is rated at 335mV output so get the CleanBox to drive up the voltage.

    If that's true, that has to be the lowest I've ever seen, for an upper end receiver.

    He's driving RTIA 9's Dan.

    Van,

    Make sure the cables your using to hook up the amp are of decent quality. I'd forget about the bi-amping aspect also. Most receivers usually have less voltage that most amps need for full power. Usually receivers carry around 1 volt of line output and most amps require 1-2 volts, give or take.

    Most the times, this isn't an issue as even without full rated power, the use of an additional amp is still way better that the power sections build into receivers. The Pioneer SC series is more so an exception than the rule, as they have some decent power build in so the differences won't be as night and day as compared to others.

    Maybe start with a better description of how you have everything hooked up, what cables are used and what they are plugged into. Sometimes easy mistakes are overlooked.
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  • mantismantis Posts: 14,643
    Ok cool,
    I'd like to know how the output voltage of the Pioneer Elite receiver was obtained?
    It's not in the manual as I just looked. If the voltage is only 335mv, thats less then half of anything else on the market and a very poor decision on Pioneer's part.
    I have owned many Pioneer Elite receivers over the years and have tried using External amps with them starting way back with a Rotel RMB1095. I never felt that the output was low or had any issues. I have had B&K amps , Niles, NAD and had no issues with any of them. I never knew what the output voltage was or dug into it as I never had any issues.
    The Emotiva amps IMO are sub par at best and not my first choice in amps if I was gonna try and upgrade from Pioneer Elite's ICE or D3 amps. I feel they are awesome amps and years ago I was able to power a set of really hard to drive Dynaudio Audience 82's which are 4 ohms and only 87db. Thats why back then I had the Rotel RMB1095 amp still in my system when I upgraded from the Rotel RSP1068 preamp to the SC-07 at that time. When I switched to the Internal amps of the Pioneer SC, I was shocked how good they where and how strong and loud they played without losing dynamic range is why you would want external amps on any receiver.
    The reason o use external amps is so you have head room, dynamic range and more current to drive your speaker. Most receivers suck with internal amps but not the Elite SC higher end models. The RTIA9's are not difficult to drive but to get out of them max performance, a quality external amp is not a bad idea.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,307
    edited June 19
    WLDock wrote: »
    The Pioneer is rated at 335mV output so get the CleanBox to drive up the voltage.

    The 335mv is for the record out not line level out, the line level is 1.5v.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,819
    F1nut wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »
    The Pioneer is rated at 335mV output so get the CleanBox to drive up the voltage.

    The 335mv is for the record out not line level out, the line level is 1.5v.

    Now that makes more sense, which begs to question if the OP has it hooked up properly.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,307
    I also wonder if he ran the calibration program again after hooking up the amp.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,013
    edited June 20
    Oh wait, I stand corrected...the spec does say REC OUT. Anyway​, I seem to remember some others stating that the pre-amp voltage on some of the Pioneers as being a tad low. I guess it's assumed that pre outs are .75v-1.5v as they do not list this spec on several of their models. Some others have used a Cleanbox on the output. Be sure to check the settings and recheck, etc.
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
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