Ferrite cylinder things

I just found these I am guessing by the size of them that they came with a power cord for something. Does anyone use these, if so where?

Thanx
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Comments

  • msgmsg Posts: 2,897
    Your father obviously didn't use them properly.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,360
    afterburnt wrote: »
    I just found these I am guessing by the size of them that they came with a power cord for something. Does anyone use these, if so where?

    Thanx

    They can reduce/remove noise on a power cord. More commonly found on computer and TV power cords.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    They do more harm than good in my experiences. While they do clean up noise, they also muffle the sound.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 2,929
    msg, I don't know who my father is but he must have been really stoopid cause my mom is pretty smart and look at how I turned out. Now that I think about it my mom wasn't all that bright for having sex with a we todd. But back to important stuff.

    Jesse, there are some built into the HDMI cable that came with my Oppo but that is for video only so that should be ok no?

    Derek, are you talking about on power cords?
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 6,614
    I've used them both on power cords and interconnects. I didn't find any adverse effects with them. ymmv
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    edited June 12
    The whole idea is if you get the geometry of a cable right, you don't need the ferrite because its a moot point. If that's the case, you definitely don't get any adverse effects.

    Not discounting your experiences pit. They just vary from mine.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 6,614
    Its all good. A well engineered cable will not need any. I used them on braided cables i made and on over the counter well made cables. Ferrite is also what the AM antenna bars were made out of back in the day on old tuners. They can not only reject but attract stuff.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 2,929
    edited June 12
    If there was a consensus on their utility I was gonna get some for my stock power cords since I can't get better new cords for now. I am guessing that you need a few per cord to get any benefit. If yall think I should use em please tell me where to stick it, uh them. Amazon has all shapes and sizes for a few bucks a piece if I looked I am sure I could find them cheaper.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    Save your money brother. If I find the Mad Scientist ferrite pucks I had I'll ship them your way.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 7,514
    They work best on Dc input devices
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 2,929
    Ok, I just didn't want to get on the floor for nothing and have to wait an hour to get the strength to get back up.

    Ron, I am not sure if I have any DC input devices or Marvel input devices for that matter.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    DC Comics.....
    dpc%20double%20punch%20no.jpg

  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 6,282
    Ferrite thingies make great weights for string type stuff...
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 13,914
    superstrings?
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 8,051
    ybislal3ml9w.jpg
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    superstrings?

  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,457
    OK, time to put the "opinions" aside here and listen to real science.

    Those ferrite cylinder absolutely do have an effect but you don't hear it. If you think you do, you're full of baloney so just step out of the thread now and learn something.

    Those ferrite cores do not affect how the power reaches whatever you are trying to power. They stop surges from traveling back down the power cord and into your house wiring where they can do stuff like fry an expensive thing like a passive pre-amp or SACD player.

    The surges are very real and occur when a high current power supply abruptly cuts off. That's why you see them often on stuff like circular saws or other power tools.

    If you think of electricity as traveling in waves, picture water in your bathtub. The bathtub is full of water, that would represent the power grid. Your drain is the cord to whatever high current thing you are running with electricity. When the drain is open, the water travels pretty quickly to through the drain. Now snap that drain shut. What happens? Well, the water that was running to the drain kinda starts running into the water that was just heading down the drain that was abruptly stopped by the drain closing. It all rushes into the drain stopper. That causes a back wave to rush back through the drain opening and ripple out to the bathtub. That backwave is caused by all the water that is bouncing off the drain stopper. The bigger the drain, the bigger the backwave.

    Electricity on a high current item like a circular saw or an air compressor or a power amplifier will behave in a similar way and can send a pretty strong surge when they are clicked off like you let go of a trigger on a saw or the air compressor's pressure trigger shut the motor off or you're done listening to your stereo for the night and shut off the power amplifier.

    That back wave of a surge doesn't travel back up the power cord, though. It doesn't fight the flow of electricity down the power cord. It will travel on the outside of the cord, not outside the insulation but on the surface of the wire inside the insulation. Think of what it looks like when you're peeing in the toilet. The water doesn't come back up the stream and hit you in the wee wee, it gets push out of the way by the continuing stream. By the time you are done and the water can travel back up the path it came, there's not enough energy to overcome the resistance to get there so it falls back down to the toilet.

    The ferrite cores are magnets. The poles are arranged so that anything traveling through the center is unaffected by the magnetic fields. The reason they are necessary is that the wire is a confined space and there's not much space for the return surge to go. So it can build enough energy to reach places where it can do damage. Just like if you were peeing in a water bottle that wasn't big enough to hold everything you had in you. It's gonna come back out.

    What that ferrite core does is it chokes down on that pathway so that surge can't get past it or it's magnetic fields but it allows the flow of power from the grid to the power supply transformer.

    That's why they are called chokes.

    They are a cheap and effective way to prevent damaging electrical power surges. The vast majority of amplifiers don't have them because they don't need them. They have components on the power supply system that prevents that surge from going anywhere and even then, they don't draw enough current to be causing the issue. Something that will make your lights dim like a circular saw or a pair of Carver Amazings being driven by Silver 7's will do that. Silver 7's, though, won't send the surge back down their power cords. You're Milwaukee 7 1/4" circular saw will.

    So they server a purpose and have no negative effect on power delivery to your equipment. There is science to prove it. If you use them on your interconnects, you're kinda wasting your time because the voltage and current is far too low to do anything of any consequence to the components that would handle that signal. If your interconnects are shielded then the chokes are doing absolutely nothing because the whole point of a shield is to prevent interference from EM sources.

    Also, since the signal path is DC and not AC, a magnetic choke is likely causing interference with your signal path if you have them on interconnects so take them off. They are unnecessary and likely causing problems.

    If you have it on a power cord, it's fine to leave them there. Just make sure if there are directional markings you have the arrow pointing in the correct direction of the power flow.

    The reason you can buy them individually is because they can break. I have broken them before on my Milwaukee circular saw from stepping on the cord or something falling on it. If they break, it changes how the field works and it's not as effective if at all. So you replace them.

    And I have seen actual effects on stuff like portable generators pop a circuit breaker from the surge the chokes are meant to protect from.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    They also suppress EMF and that can affect the sound. Magnetism is actually gaining ground in audio as a way to improve the sound.
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,457
    Did you not read my post?

    The whole point of magnets is to suppress power surges. Power surges, like all power transfer, operates on electromagnetic fields. That's why magnetic chokes work. Magnetic chokes are also directional. Installed properly they will not affect the flow power to your system. They should not be used on interconnects.

    Stop propagating snake oil solutions. Anyone who tells you that they are a positive influence on any kind of sound is full of baloney. They aren't. They are designed to be that way. Unless your choke is loose and sliding down to near your component's power supply, the EM field is not strong enough to affect what the component is drawing. If you choke is sliding down your cord. shove it back up to where the plug is and put a zip tie around the cord behind it to keep it there.

    If the magnet ends up near the component, it can cause a hum induced in the power transformer from the magnet affecting the EM fields in the power transformer if the transformer is not shielded.
  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 6,282
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    superstrings?

    Kinda...tie one to the end of a string and you have a rather effective "rookie training device" for use in say an auto shop to get the attention of the rookie in training. I find an upside the head motion works flawlessly to grab attention, ymmv of course. :)
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    Do you not realize that EMF also affects the cables? Ferrite is a way to suppress that as you say, but there are also negative affects to the higher frequencies. When a cable is designed properly, there is no need for the Ferrite. EMF is noise in the signal chain and that cannot be argued. Even you said so in your post that I did not read.

    The design principle has nothing to do with the application. Isn't that how Peanut Butter was invented?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    Here is a guy who has been in the business for years. I don't have first hand experience with anything in his line, but I have seen great press on his items:

    http://www.highfidelitycables.com/technology.html

    Same principle as the ferrite.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 17,659
    Good to know jstas...I always wondered what the point of those were.
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,457
    Again, did you read my post?

    Magnetic Chokes are for power cables. Not signal cables. If you have them on your signal cables, remove them. They will do nothing but cause problems.

    I stated that directly in my post. Actually several times in now 3 posts.

    I don't know why you are still trying to "educate" me on this when I've clearly stated it several times now.

    And the design principle has everything to do with the application. If you are not using them as designed then they are not going to work as designed due to improper application and that can and likely will result in less than desirable effects that won't necessarily be predictable.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    The Ferrite cores on cables is used to reduce EMF from outside sources as well. This is why people use them on all types of cables. We both agree that they don't have a place but for different reasons. I don't like the sound and you tell me they make no difference and that I'm full of baloney.

    I'm telling you these chokes do affect the signal regardless of the cable they are on. The Mad Scientist disks many here on the forum got as free samples shared their experiences. Those disks are mostly ferrite and were designed to be placed at the receiving end of the cables, again to eliminate the EMF/RFI before it enters the next component.
  • CoolJazzCoolJazz Posts: 484
    I have never heard of a ferrite choke being used in the same sentence as "surge".

    What they do is form a low pass filter. Much like using a disc cap on a line. The material used effects the frequency, which is why you can order ferrite rings for uses at different frequencies.

    Using them on audio lines is questionable much like using any low pass filter is. The question in that case is what frequency is the pole and what bandwidth you have.

    On a cord on a power tool, it'd be effective an minimizing the harm back onto the line from all the sparking at the armature (HF noise). And when you stop, maybe for an instant from ringing but I don't think that's really what they're for.

    I disagree with much of what's been said here as wisdom and I've purchased and used ferrites in many high power applications.

    CJ
  • CoolJazzCoolJazz Posts: 484
    Also, probably better get used to them with all the junk out there on power lines today. Like the Obama bulbs, the LED lights, the switch mode power supplies hanging on everything, etc....
    CJ
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,218
    CoolJazz wrote: »
    Also, probably better get used to them with all the junk out there on power lines today. Like the Obama bulbs, the LED lights, the switch mode power supplies hanging on everything, etc....
    CJ

    Eh...like already stated, if you have a well built power cord, in audio applications anyway, you shouldn't need these things.

  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,457
    edited June 13
    First off, forgive me for using a descriptive term that may not have been 100% accurate but was used to describe something complex in simple terms so that one does not need an engineering degree to understand what I am saying. Just because it's a term you are not familiar with in relation to the topic at hand does not make it incorrect, though. EM fields, just like actual power transmission, can surge. It's how EMPs work.

    Secondly, since you don't believe me, here, read about it yourself instead of just guessing about complex topics.

    http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question352.htm
    https://www.quora.com/What-purpose-does-the-small-cylindrical-module-near-the-end-of-my-laptop-charger-cable-serve
    http://gizmodo.com/5871162/what-do-those-mysterious-lumps-on-your-cables-do
    https://superuser.com/questions/217772/what-is-that-cylinder-on-cables
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/11/01/cylinder_or_box_on_computer_cords_what_s_it_for.html

    There's plenty more links all explaining it in simple terms from people that aren't me.

    http://bfy.tw/CLNc

    It's 2017. The entirety of human knowledge is accessible from a little glowing box in your pocket, 24/7. Ignorance is not an excuse now more than ever.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,907
    From the second link:

    The ferrite bead (also called a ferrite choke) is used to make sure the wire doesn’t unintentionally transform into a radio.

    This is the part I've been talking about. I understand your description. Like I said, a properly designed cable doesn't need this IMO and will only serve as a detriment. ANY cable us susceptible to this field and using ferrite on it is a band-aid. EMF will change the signal due to increased noise and removing them will decrease the noise. How this doesn't equate to hearing a difference is where I'm stuck? When I tried them in my system a few years ago, a veil was added to the music and my soundstage shrank.

    I'm not sure exactly where the relevance between our two stances are because neither is incorrect from where I'm sitting. We both agree that they reduce EMF and noise. The applications of the ferrite in our scenarios is different, but the result is the same, is it not?
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