My Glorious Day With Pioneer Customer Service

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Comments

  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,044
    edited June 11
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I am surprised they have any new stock left of the 88FD, or possibly they have a truck load of unsold product sitting somewhere.

    They don't have any new stock '88FD left, and '88FDs show up on the used market about as often as pygmy unicorns. If I were willing to put in the effort, I could probably find a new-old-stock unit hidden behind some boxes in a dusty dealer stockroom or warehouse.

    I am not clear on why they still feature the '88FD at the top of their blu-ray player web page since it was discontinued years ago:

    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Blu-ray-Disc

    It appears as if they are attempting to mislead people into thinking that their current blu-ray players, the BDP-80FD ($300) and the BDP-62FD ($400) have the same construction and parts quality technologies as the $2000 BDP-88FD.

    The link above starts out with pictures and an overview of the BDP-88FD, although the '88FD is not mentioned by name. Then there is a link to the details about the '80FD. I imagine that some people might fall for the okey-doke and switcheroo and not notice that all the wonderful heavy duty construction does not apply to the '80FD.

  • I went into some detail saying that I had followed the example of other BDP-09FD owners who had this problem: found the part at a Chinese electronics supplier and replaced it myself.

    In light of this, your "advice" makes no sense whatsoever.

    Good luck getting your BD player fixed. Even if the repairs do not work out, that unit should still make a very stylish hood ornament or even a boat anchor for your bass boat. :)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 6,610

    I went into some detail saying that I had followed the example of other BDP-09FD owners who had this problem: found the part at a Chinese electronics supplier and replaced it myself.

    In light of this, your "advice" makes no sense whatsoever.

    Good luck getting your BD player fixed. Even if the repairs do not work out, that unit should still make a very stylish hood ornament or even a boat anchor for your bass boat. :)

    You ever been to west Virginia?

  • mantismantis Posts: 14,558
    At this point I'm basically ready to throw in the Towel.
  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 6,281
    DK, your story kind of reminds me of my glorious time with Onkyo customer service. It was so bad I finally said screw it to my Onkyo AVR and from there on in. I also refuse to buy their products, including Pioneer home stuff which apparently they have a stake in now. I might still have a pair of Onkyo towers in my HT, but they were purchased before the issues arose and the ultimate lack of customer service received.
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,457
    In regards to 4K vs Pioneer Kuro sets, I agree with you.

    I had my socks knocked off when I saw a Pioneer Elite plasma set showing flyover footage on a secondary digital channel from a local PBS station. It wasn't even the resolution that was impressive. It was the fluidity with the way the picture moved unlike many of the cheaper sets. It was natural. It wasn't like watching TV at all. It was like looking out a window.

    The only thing that has come close to that was Panasonic's Viera plasmas which were essentially the same thing as the Kuros since they used the Kuro software on Panasonic displays which they were building for Pioneer anyway. Just before Pioneer got out of the TV business. The Panasonic processing isn't quite up to the same speed but the picture quality is just as good.

    The only TVs that have knocked my socks off like that first Elite TV I saw are the newer Sony Bravias. So much so that I have their no-bells-and-whistles 4K set hanging in my basement. For what I paid for it, it is impressive and I've been pleased with it. IT even up-converts lower res signals very well. So much so that I can watch YouTube or Vimeo videos in impressive clarity on it. When you get actual 4K material to watch on it it's stunning.
  • The following incident is based on an actually true historical event and is, in part, autobiographical:

    "Knock, Knock."
    "Who's there?"
    "Boo."
    "Boo who?"
    "Ha ha, I made you cry!"
    "No you didn't!"
    "Did to!"
    "Did not!"
    "Did to!!"
    "Did not, did not, did not!!!"
    "I'm crying because my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player just croaked! It was only 14 years out of warranty!! There was a known issue with that player and Toshiba should have warned me that it was susceptible to old age."

    "That's not true, everyone knows mechanical devices from Toshiba never wear out and break down."
    "They do to break down and wear out."
    "Do not."
    "Do to."

    "What's even worse, I called Toshiba customer service and their rep was rude to me."
    "Was not!"
    "Was to!!"
    "He even sent me a rude Email that began with, "Lol, you've gotta be kidding, a 15 year old DVD player and you want us to fix it for free? What are you smokin'?"
    "He then offered to sell me a refurb DVD player at full retail price!"

    Fortunately, I did survive the death of my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player a month ago and will be getting either an Oppo or a Sony BD player in a few months. Until then, I have my computer DVD drive as a back up so life goes on. I normally don't cry when my old stuff breaks, but that Toshiba was cute and very easy to use. It even played CD-Rs! B)
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,044
    mantis wrote: »
    At this point I'm basically ready to throw in the Towel.

    Specifically, what are you throwing in the towel about?
  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 3,705
    BlueFox wrote: »
    The following incident is based on an actually true historical event and is, in part, autobiographical:

    "Knock, Knock."
    "Who's there?"
    "Boo."
    "Boo who?"
    "Ha ha, I made you cry!"
    "No you didn't!"
    "Did to!"
    "Did not!"
    "Did to!!"
    "Did not, did not, did not!!!"
    "I'm crying because my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player just croaked! It was only 14 years out of warranty!! There was a known issue with that player and Toshiba should have warned me that it was susceptible to old age."

    "That's not true, everyone knows mechanical devices from Toshiba never wear out and break down."
    "They do to break down and wear out."
    "Do not."
    "Do to."

    "What's even worse, I called Toshiba customer service and their rep was rude to me."
    "Was not!"
    "Was to!!"
    "He even sent me a rude Email that began with, "Lol, you've gotta be kidding, a 15 year old DVD player and you want us to fix it for free? What are you smokin'?"
    "He then offered to sell me a refurb DVD player at full retail price!"

    Fortunately, I did survive the death of my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player a month ago and will be getting either an Oppo or a Sony BD player in a few months. Until then, I have my computer DVD drive as a back up so life goes on. I normally don't cry when my old stuff breaks, but that Toshiba was cute and very easy to use. It even played CD-Rs! B)

    What can I say about the poster that the post itself doesn't already say? LOL.

    Really, way out of line.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,218
    The following incident is based on an actually true historical event and is, in part, autobiographical:

    "Knock, Knock."
    "Who's there?"
    "Boo."
    "Boo who?"
    "Ha ha, I made you cry!"
    "No you didn't!"
    "Did to!"
    "Did not!"
    "Did to!!"
    "Did not, did not, did not!!!"
    "I'm crying because my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player just croaked! It was only 14 years out of warranty!! There was a known issue with that player and Toshiba should have warned me that it was susceptible to old age."

    "That's not true, everyone knows mechanical devices from Toshiba never wear out and break down."
    "They do to break down and wear out."
    "Do not."
    "Do to."

    "What's even worse, I called Toshiba customer service and their rep was rude to me."
    "Was not!"
    "Was to!!"
    "He even sent me a rude Email that began with, "Lol, you've gotta be kidding, a 15 year old DVD player and you want us to fix it for free? What are you smokin'?"
    "He then offered to sell me a refurb DVD player at full retail price!"

    Fortunately, I did survive the death of my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player a month ago and will be getting either an Oppo or a Sony BD player in a few months. Until then, I have my computer DVD drive as a back up so life goes on. I normally don't cry when my old stuff breaks, but that Toshiba was cute and very easy to use. It even played CD-Rs! B)

    Once again you missed the mark. This thread isn't about a player out of warranty, it's about customer service. Ray could easily toss the 09 and buy a new one. Pioneer did not steer him to the parts he needed, he had to do that on his own.

    A good example would be Polk speakers, vintage. If you need a part, they may or may not have it, but they don't talk you into LSIM's while your trying to fix SDA's.

    While nobody expects a company to keep paying for parts on legacy products....out of warranty yet, they can at least steer you to where to get them. That's called servicing the customer, building brand loyalty, making the customer happy even though the company didn't gain anything financially. To me, that's Ray's complaint, not that Pioneer wouldn't pay for it.

    Ray,

    Not sure the car analogy is relevant here. Car makers are held under law to issue known problems and correct them. Electronic makers are not. Only in the rare situations where a known problem is so wide and frequent will they issue some sort of statement to address it.

    There is, in my mind anyway, certain things in audio to spend the coin on, and some things you shouldn't, that are throw aways. BR players is one of them....HT receivers another. Especially seeing that most things today are built for a shorter life cycle than what we older dudes are accustomed to. That goes for most all things beyond audio too, like appliances.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 1,777
    nbrowser wrote: »
    DK, your story kind of reminds me of my glorious time with Onkyo customer service. It was so bad I finally said screw it to my Onkyo AVR and from there on in.

    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,218
    edited June 12
    Emlyn wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    DK, your story kind of reminds me of my glorious time with Onkyo customer service. It was so bad I finally said screw it to my Onkyo AVR and from there on in.

    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.


    ......and that friends, is the value in good CS. ;)
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,044
    tonyb wrote: »
    Not sure the car analogy is relevant here. Car makers are held under law to issue known problems and correct them. Electronic makers are not. Only in the rare situations where a known problem is so wide and frequent will they issue some sort of statement to address it.

    Car makers are also required by law to maintain parts inventories for ten years. There are some that go beyond this.

    Automotive service bulletins typically have an expiration date and after that it is up to the dealer's/manufacturer's discretion as to whether they want to accommodate a customer after the warranty/extended warranty period ends. In my case with the cracking paint, the warranty was extended for only an additional year after the initial 3 year warranty expired. This was deemed a reasonable amount of time because any paint problems would normally have occurred well before four years had passed. However, this car was my second vehicle and was a weekend toy that I kept garaged 95% of the time. It didn't have daily exposure to sun and weather and the problem took longer to manifest itself. The dealer and manufacturer had no legal obligation to repaint my car but they understood the extenuating circumstance and took care of me anyway.

    This is similar to the issue with my Pioneer BR player not becoming evident until 8 years had passed due to seldom use.

    On another note, guys, please stop quoting troll comments. The best way to address this behavior is to report it.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,044
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.

    I was surprised to receive a reply from Onkyo CS after contacting Pioneer's support website. The contact info at the bottom of the CS agent's emails said:

    "Thank you for contacting Onkyo and Integra USA Product Support"

    I then googled "Pioneer Onkyo" and found out about Pioneer's 2014 selloff.

    Aside from this unpleasantness, my experiences with Onkyo Integra products has been positive. I owned two Onkyo Integra DX-7500 CD players, purchased in 1989 and 2002, (both sold to raise funds for other toys). I currently have two Onkyo Integra TA-2800 cassette decks in storage.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,906
    Like others have pointed out, you have to start looking at these companies post 2009 to get a feel for who they are today. Unfortunately most of the big players in the electronics side have thrown the CS to the side, but some seem to have thrown it further than others.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,044
    DSkip wrote: »
    Like others have pointed out, you have to start looking at these companies post 2009 to get a feel for who they are today. Unfortunately most of the big players in the electronics side have thrown the CS to the side, but some seem to have thrown it further than others.

    Well, that's the thing: since 2009, and really, since 2006, my home electronics purchases shifted mostly toward U.S., Canadian, and British manufacturers high end brands (Pass Labs, dCS, Bryston, AudioQuest, PS Audio, Parasound) and away from the Japanese mass market brands (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Yamaha).
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 12,906
    edited June 12
    As many others have as well. I think some get stuck on these major Japanese brands being what they used to be, but the truth is much of that market has been taken up by those more boutique brands that generally also provide better customer service and more personal experience for not much more coin than the flagship units from the Japanese products would cost.

    The entire audiophile landscape has changed in the past 10 years to the point that its almost overwhelming how many options you have nowadays.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 6,610
    On another note, guys, please stop quoting troll comments. The best way to address this behavior is to report it.

    yep and have been playing the part. it's beyond ridiculous at this point.

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 7,512
    During and after the housing market crash...Elite which was a signed contract dealer only product went public....understandably it was feast or famine. I used to be competitive in Polk, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony etc

    Housing crash really screwed all that up.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,218
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    During and after the housing market crash...Elite which was a signed contract dealer only product went public....understandably it was feast or famine. I used to be competitive in Polk, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony etc

    Housing crash really screwed all that up.

    Yep, and it will happen again. Given a choice to close your doors or merge, most decided to merge to stay afloat. Crap happens.....and I think the Japan brands are living on reputations of their vintage stuff also.

    I try to imagine what products today will be the sought after vintage products of tomorrow. What offers build quality, function, and excellent sound quality. With the pace of technology changing, stuff becomes a legacy product a lot quicker than the old days.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 13,913
    edited June 13
    On the other hand -- one could buy a brand new 2A3 direct heat audio triode in the 1930s (date of introduction: 1932, if the internet is to be believed), and one maystill buy a brand new 2A3 today.

    An RCA 2A3 was $1.75 in 1935 (source: www.alliedcatalogs.com):

    016.jpg

    Using an inflation calculator (e.g., https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl)

    $1.75 in 1935, adjusted for (CPI) inflation, would be $31.46 today.
    A "Sino" brand (essentially generic) 2A3 at tubedepot today is $39.98
    https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sino-2a3-power-vacuum-tube


    9598891935_a939d46f8a_b.jpg2A3spnbox by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    On the other hand (I guess I am up to three hands now!), the price of, say, vintage Peerless, Chicago, Acrosound (etc.) iron, Altec loudspeaker components, Western Electric capacitors (pretty much anything Western Electric), etc. has far outstripped inflation. The technology used in those hifi products was, is, and likely will long remain both viable and in demand.

    EDIT: in fairness, a NOS single plate 1930s RCA 2A3 would fetch a lot more than $39.98 ;)
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 838
    Well for the most part good CS is hit and miss these day's.

    As Pioneer saying what they did was just wrong, plus trying to push a new product on the customer rather than giving him a way to fix it is not right. Telling the customer that they have illegal copies is more than rude. I own over a thousand DVD and blu-ray's, I back everyone up.

    When I need a new grill for the CL CSI5 I called Polk and was driving to vista that same day to pick it up.

    When my Delta table saw had an out of box dented wing, Delta was giving me the run around, Lowes made it right and pulled a wing out of another box for me.

    My Sony ES had the dreaded heat issue I had to sent it to NY on my dime, 3 weeks later I received an email saying the part is back ordered and it will be 4-6 weeks. I called the Sony ES CS in San Diego. The guy I spoke to knew me from the CRT days, new in box 5700ES the next day

    Now Nissan and the dreaded timing chain on my Maxima that was a BBB nightmare.
  • cvccvc Posts: 56
    I purchased the top of the line Elite Laser disc player back in the day.. Was like $1,200 in the late eighties.. This player, (maybe DV-09 or something similar) was the talk of the audio mags.. I bought one..

    Lasted maybe 2 years and broke down.. Sent it for repair and lasted a year before another breakdown.. After that repair it survived only one more year and I was done..

    Shake my head every time I see a Pioneer Elite product..
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 8,967
    Okay. My turn for a customer service horror story. Back around 2007 or so, I purchased from Crutchfield the second best Sony DVD/SACD player, the DVPNS3100ES. At that time, it was an expensive purchase for me. However, since it was an ES, it had a five year warranty, and that made the purchase easier.

    After 2-3 months the video stopped displaying. Since I had it for a while I decided to use the warranty, and have Sony repair it. After getting the RMA, I boxed it up in the original box, and sent it to Laredo TX for repair.

    A few days later, Sony contacts me and says they will not do a warranty repair since someone had opened it up and tampered with it. I explained that I bought it new, the box was factory sealed, and I hadn't done anything to it. Too bad, they said. Pay us what you paid for it, and we will repair it. After a bunch of back and forth I finally said just send it back to me.

    While I had sent it back in the original box, it came back to me in a large box and single wrapped in bubble paper. That did nothing to prevent it from bouncing around in the oversized box. I was P.O.ed.

    After I calmed down I contacted Crutchfield and they said return it for an exchange. I can't tell you how much I appreciated that, but I have always wondered what would have happened if it were three years old versus three months.

    While I did recently buy a Sony TV, Sony is still on my badmouth and boycott list.

    https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DVPNS3100ES-Super-Audio-Player/dp/B000CRPS76
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,360
    I'm surprised someone hasn't gone postal on that Sony place in Laredo. I've never heard of anyone having a good experience with them.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,360
    As for Pioneer Elite products, my AVR and Blu-Ray player have been bullet proof, so I haven't needed to test their repair service.
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