Is there such a thing as too much black hole five?

I have a pair of SDASRS twos and I got my shipment of black hole five today. I got a lot. I was thinking of doing the whole area behind the mids and tweets from side to side, not just doing strips. Is there a potential downside besides cost or is it a good idea?

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  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 2,216
    Too much and you will be wondering, where is the bass.


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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    Too much and you will be wondering, where is the bass.

    This.

    Do not put anymore in than the 3 or 4 inch wide strips behind the mid-drivers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • analogluvranalogluvr Posts: 72
    OK thanks. Do you find that it tightens up what bass there is? Because right now I find I have an excess of base.
    How do you generally fasten the stuff up? Can I use PL premium? Can I also use PL premium for the driver magnets?
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,380
    I was stupid enough to do the entire cabinet years ago, DON'T DO IT, the strips are perfect...
    Death Grip...
  • machonemachone Posts: 834
    On my 2.3TL's:
    I put a strip of Black Hole behind the four stereo drivers and the same length strip behind the sda drivers. And an additional strip behind each of the three tweeters.

    0c77v4lb90fy.png

    gr7x6h8l1ft1.png

    Should I remove the pieces behind the tweeters?
    Should I reduce the length of the sda strip so that it is only behind the two sda drivers?

    Thanks :|

    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
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  • stones89stones89 Posts: 215
    I put mine behind the MW's only on my 2.3tl's. still burning in the new caps so I don't know how much the BH has contributed to the sound.
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  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 2,216
    machone wrote: »
    On my 2.3TL's:
    I put a strip of Black Hole behind the four stereo drivers and the same length strip behind the sda drivers. And an additional strip behind each of the three tweeters.

    0c77v4lb90fy.png

    gr7x6h8l1ft1.png

    Should I remove the pieces behind the tweeters?
    Should I reduce the length of the sda strip so that it is only behind the two sda drivers?

    Thanks :|



    You want it behind all the MW's, no benefit behind the tweeters. Won't hurt anything, it was just a waste of material.



    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's
    Cables: Wireworld Eclipse IC, Audio Art IC3; Speaker cable LA International SS-800; PS Audio AC-3 power cords; All into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage.
  • analogluvranalogluvr Posts: 72
    So I didn't listen then I filled all four spots behind each mid woofer. When I listened it had sucked all the life out of the sound and there was no bass just as I was told by you folks. So I pulled out what was behind the bottom two on each side and listened again. It was much improved but not as good as it was before. So I pulled The last two pieces though and it was back to sounding glorious. In my humble opinion I don't think it's a benefit to the sound. Even the second time I listened when there was only a little bit left in there it seemed there was less detail and resolution.
  • analogluvranalogluvr Posts: 72
    At minimum I would advise experimenting and listening as I did. Find your preference and go with it.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    Everyone else and I mean everyone that has added BH5 found it to improve the sound.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,900
    analogluvr wrote: »
    So I didn't listen then I filled all four spots behind each mid woofer. When I listened it had sucked all the life out of the sound and there was no bass just as I was told by you folks. So I pulled out what was behind the bottom two on each side and listened again. It was much improved but not as good as it was before. So I pulled The last two pieces though and it was back to sounding glorious. In my humble opinion I don't think it's a benefit to the sound. Even the second time I listened when there was only a little bit left in there it seemed there was less detail and resolution.

    I do appreciate the fact that you trial and errored your way through the process, and how you prefer the sound might be different than the next guy.
    __________________________________________________
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  • machonemachone Posts: 834
    I removed the BH5 from behind the tweeters and cut 5" off each end of the strip behind the sda drivers. So now it is only behind the mid stereo and sda drivers. Turns out this is 42% of the original BH5 area. Not a trivial amount.

    The overall balance is better along with the stronger bass.
    A little bit goes a long way. Live and learn.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 1,999
    edited May 31
    @machone, I am not really laughing at your post, I thought it would look neat
    having four "1"s in a row...

    I am finally going to try this mod myself on my 2Bs, now that they're getting relocated it's as good a time as any to take them apart.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,822
    You guys will get a laugh at this one. I also installed BH-5 in my '87 2Bs. I posted the pick over on AK and of course Jesse who also frequents there said Lew what is the white doing in the cabinet. Well here's the story, the dude I bought the sheet from also had already cut on a band saw perfect sizes for me but he said they were very old and had no stick-um left on them and were free. I said I have Liquid Nails and that sh%t holds anything. So cabinet #14di54wwt92q3.jpg
    is done and then I go to the new sheet and I said I put it in **** backwards. I do have pics of the wrong way but I had enough to clean up the first cabinet and all is well w/ the world.. ]
    2chl- Adcom 555- NAD 1020a pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Samson - 9 outlet-Adcom GFS-6 -Rectilinear Low Boys - DCM TF 350s- OHM L- , '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, gaskets, Stained Walnut tops

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 855
    @machone ...just curious, when you are experimenting with the BH5, applying or removing, are you leaving your speakers sit in the exact same spot,.or are you moving them?

    Do you lay them flat then stand them back up, or work with them as they stand?

    Reason I ask this, if In fact you do move them, 1/2" difference from where you last placed them can make a big difference in bass response.

    My midrange clarity improved with the BH5, bass didn't suffer any...was cleaner if anything. If I had to put my finger on what happened to the bass with my 2B's, is that it cleaned it up, if it was less "noticeable", I would say it was less muddy so the perceived amount of bass could be less, but it is cleaner and tighter...not boomy.
  • machonemachone Posts: 834
    gmcman,

    I mark the floor with tape, measure to the wall and eye ball for location.

    When I first added the BH5 I did several mods at the same time (Larry's rings, cabinet sealing) and the bass did become much tighter and an overall improvement. But I have always been in a quest for more deep bass in this room. I have tried different speaker locations and lately I have been adding bass traps. I like the results of the bass traps and plan to add more.

    It was not until this thread that I questioned myself that maybe I applied too much BH5. It seemed worth it to remove the areas that were not directly behind the mid drivers.

    Now that I have listened a few nights I can say that on some recordings the bass could be touch tighter. I am hoping that this can be adjusted without affecting deep bass by moving the speakers a little further away from the wall. I am guessing that this would be no more than 1/2".

    We all know that every room is different and speaker location affects bass. Maybe in my room I need to adjust both the location and BH5.

    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,822
    [I also marked the floor before tearing into them. Then just for ease of placement and the drilling for Larry's rings I laid them down. Drilling those must be plumb vertical to get the right fit..
    2chl- Adcom 555- NAD 1020a pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Samson - 9 outlet-Adcom GFS-6 -Rectilinear Low Boys - DCM TF 350s- OHM L- , '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, gaskets, Stained Walnut tops

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 855
    machone wrote: »
    We all know that every room is different and speaker location affects bass. Maybe in my room I need to adjust both the location and BH5.

    That's also a possibility, if you kept the speakers in the same space, and are now experiencing different bass with the BH5, then perhaps you need to move them closer to the wall, use small increments.
  • analogluvranalogluvr Posts: 72
    When I did my speakers I laid them down to remove it but I am fairly certain I had them in the same spot when I put them up. In my experience it takes bass away so it is perceived to be tighter with it in. I just found that it took bass and life out of the speaker which was rather obvious when I put a large amount of the stuff in. I can see how some people might prefer it with just a very little bit of the stuff but I would rather work on tightening the bass with placement and other ways as opposed to removing it with the black hole five.
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,822
    I forgot to mention that installing the bh-5 was one of the mods that made a huge difference in sound. Yes the 194s are better than the Sliverdomes and of course up grading x-overs does it's thing but I was shocked at the difference between the hollowness of the cabinets before installing the bh-5 that it was so different I had to really adjust to the new sound which became very clear was the way to go. If using bh-5 why then do the Dynamatt thing also ? Kinda late asking now
    2chl- Adcom 555- NAD 1020a pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Samson - 9 outlet-Adcom GFS-6 -Rectilinear Low Boys - DCM TF 350s- OHM L- , '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, gaskets, Stained Walnut tops

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • ptrooperptrooper Posts: 203
    I to had to readjust to the new sound and it was definitely for the better as everything settled in.
    I also remembered reading through DK's posts and how he said he would like to have tried a little more installed......i not only installed 3" strips behind the MW's but also to each side of the cabinets . I definitely do not have a problem with lost bass or midrange!
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 8,115
    edited June 1
    If you have them spiked and put tape down around the spikes it is real easy to get them exactly in the same spot. If you have them spiked on carpet it is even easier to put the back in the exact same spot.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,300
    edited June 1
    analogluvr wrote: »
    When I did my speakers I laid them down to remove it but I am fairly certain I had them in the same spot when I put them up. In my experience it takes bass away so it is perceived to be tighter with it in. I just found that it took bass and life out of the speaker which was rather obvious when I put a large amount of the stuff in. I can see how some people might prefer it with just a very little bit of the stuff but I would rather work on tightening the bass with placement and other ways as opposed to removing it with the black hole five.

    BH5's primary function is to clean up the midrange, which it excells at and in turn it cleans up a bit of boom, which you may think is bass. I and those that have heard my rig can tell you that I have bass in spades or as one member put it, like swimming in a pool of bass.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • kevinkokevinko Posts: 141
    If using bh-5 why then do the Dynamat thing also ?
    I'd like to know too. What are the sonic benefits of installing both?
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 6,563
    Dynamat stops the basket ringing.
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • machonemachone Posts: 834
    gmcman wrote: »
    machone wrote: »
    We all know that every room is different and speaker location affects bass. Maybe in my room I need to adjust both the location and BH5.

    That's also a possibility, if you kept the speakers in the same space, and are now experiencing different bass with the BH5, then perhaps you need to move them closer to the wall, use small increments.

    Recently I moved them closer to the wall and the image suffered. Now I am experiencing better SQ with less BH5.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 21 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Marantz SA 8005>> Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-110 Preamp + (Musical Concepts LXII Elite Mod) >>Equinox 7>>
    Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod) >>Belden 5000 10 ga cables>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 855
    edited June 2
    machone wrote: »
    gmcman wrote: »
    machone wrote: »
    We all know that every room is different and speaker location affects bass. Maybe in my room I need to adjust both the location and BH5.

    That's also a possibility, if you kept the speakers in the same space, and are now experiencing different bass with the BH5, then perhaps you need to move them closer to the wall, use small increments.

    Recently I moved them closer to the wall and the image suffered. Now I am experiencing better SQ with less BH5.

    When I layed mine down flat recently to finish some cabinet sealing, along with a few woofer gasket changes, I noticed some muddy midrange. I thought it could be the new gaskets and not fully coupling the woofers to the cabinet....since that was the only thing that I changed with significant value.

    I triple checked the placement and measured from the wall, had 7 3/4" from wall, top to bottom. Then I eyeballed the cabinets from left to right and the left was clearly 1" in front.....odd.

    So what takes precedence of you can't have both......equal distance from front wall, or face of speaker on same plane to listening position.

    I put the front of the speakers on the same plane and that took care of the muddy midrange/ bass, made quite a difference. I had them that way before, but never realized my front wall was not straight...at least this bad.

    Get next to one of the speakers, and look down the back of the cabinet, move your head with one eye open until it becomes one vertical line, then see if the other speaker disappears at the same point.

    Here's mine when it was way off, the left speaker is actually 1" CLOSER to the front wall, however it's about 5/8" in front of the right speaker if you put a straight edge across both speakers.

    So just double check the placement. When mine were equal distance to my wavy front wall, the mid bass was muddy and almost sounded like it was resonating.
  • DrahthaarDrahthaar Posts: 34
    Machone,
    machone wrote: »
    I removed the BH5 from behind the tweeters and cut 5" off each end of the strip behind the sda drivers. So now it is only behind the mid stereo and sda drivers.

    I also have it installed behind the tweeters on my 2.3tl's. How hard was it to get off, did it just peel off, also did it do any damage to the particle board.
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