Pioneer LX SC-58 with S60

otomatootomato Posts: 5
... this is my first post so please be gentle ... (", )

I brought my pioneer amp SC LX-58 for afew months now with apair of Boston Acoustics A250 towers. Sound is ok but need SW to actually hear the bass. Then I made my choice in getting Klipsch Reference II. Until Polk Audio Signature Series came along. Was intrigued by its beauty and how it was design. So I guess lets get this since its far more affordable then Klipsch.
The thing that bothers me is, can this amp take up the challenge in handling these towers?
I don't want to either damage my amp or towers. I listen to mostly HT and music. Specs for this amp are as below ...

760 W Multi ch Simultaneous Drive (8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1.0 %)
240 W/ch (4 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1.0 %, 1 ch Driven)
190 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1.0 %, 1 ch Driven)
Full specs can be read from here

And BTW Im no audiophile junkie ... thanks

Comments

  • arekonarekon Posts: 77
    its my understanding that klipsch are efficient speakers and dont need a ton of juice, which is why they have low wattage ratings and usually brag about their peak power since new fish dont know how it works.
    btw, whats your avr's wpc @8ohms? i think new speakers are all usually 8ohms. i have the sc68 and its 140wpc which seems to be the standard for higher end riggin. and how loud do you listen, room size, channels?
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,330
    It will work great...go for it
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • otomatootomato Posts: 5
    arekon wrote: »
    how loud do you listen, room size, channels?

    @6ohms its 190wpc and 4 at 240wpc. @ 8ohms in papers stated as 9ch total @760w. This is the part where Im lost. I have no idea at what wpc this amp runs at 8ohms. I set my system in the living room. Volume starts from -80.0db to +12.0db. At times I turn my vol between -30 < -20 while HT (5.1) or music (2.1)
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    It will work great...go for it

    WOW!! that's awesome. Hope that these towers are loud even at -55 < -45

  • Seems like < 90W per channel to me for 8ohm speakers :*
    Studio 2 equipment;
    Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
    Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
    Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
    Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
    Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
    Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
  • mantismantis Posts: 14,623
    arekon wrote: »
    its my understanding that klipsch are efficient speakers and dont need a ton of juice, which is why they have low wattage ratings and usually brag about their peak power since new fish dont know how it works.
    btw, whats your avr's wpc @8ohms? i think new speakers are all usually 8ohms. i have the sc68 and its 140wpc which seems to be the standard for higher end riggin. and how loud do you listen, room size, channels?
    I use to have a SC-68, man I loved that receiver. The internal USB DAC is fantastic which was the first of it's kind. I got into Computer music and High rez stuff and that receiver was a great way to experience that. Not to mention it's an amazing sounding like separates AVR and the best IMO at that price point back in it's day.
    I upgraded to the SC-99 and I still currently have it.
    The new Elite receiver line removed the USB DAC so I will not be upgrading to them. I'll probably wait and see what B&K releases and consider that route.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 7,806
    While it should work fine for the polk speakers, lets keep in mind all the ratings are at 1kHz only. It is not rated from 20Hz-20kHz like the better receivers in the Pioneer line. Just don't try to get it to produce earth shattering sound levels and you should be fine.
  • otomatootomato Posts: 5
    Seems like < 90W per channel to me for 8ohm speakers :*

    90W? :'(
    Hope it can push these towers without over heating up the amp :'(

    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    It is not rated from 20Hz-20kHz like the better receivers in the Pioneer line. Just don't try to get it to produce earth shattering sound levels and you should be fine.

    Since its at 1khz what other polk audio speaker would you recommends?
    When you said "Just don't try to get it to produce earth shattering sound levels and you should be fine" if I push the volume too hard will it damage the amp or the towers or both? :s

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,330
    I still stand with my opinion. The receiver has pre-outs, so if you feel that an amp will be needed, then you can add one.

    You also mentioned use as HT speakers, then if you want to up the experience then add a subwoofer to your system. This will lighten the loads on the AVR.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • otomatootomato Posts: 5
    edited April 22
    ... thanks to those who contributed to this thread :)
    Im a new small stream fish trying to swim with the salmons which trying to beat the current ... if that even makes sense ... :s
    Did not know all that figures means something.
    Post edited by otomato on
  • otomatootomato Posts: 5
    edited April 22
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    I still stand with my opinion. The receiver has pre-outs, so if you feel that an amp will be needed, then you can add one.

    You also mentioned use as HT speakers, then if you want to up the experience then add a subwoofer to your system. This will lighten the loads on the AVR.

    yes it has pre-outs. I don't think I would need an amp for it other then subwoofer.
    WOW!! You still stand with your opinion. It really gave me confidence in buying S60 already ... thanks ... :blush:

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,330
    I had run run my surround sound system on Pioneer 1020k for a couple weeks waiting on my Sunfire amp and SC35

    Was it ideal, no, did I have to baby it, yes...the LSi's are 4ohm and power hungry

    Those S60's are a lighter load, and the ClassD amp in the SC LX-58, is a much amp section than the 1020k and pushes a higher current
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 13,519
    The Signature line is an easy load. They were designed to work well with home theater receivers and they do that with ease. Don't stress.

    As always, improved power will yield better results.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Usher: CP-6311, Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S60, S55, S35, S30, S20, S15, RTA 15tl, Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, iFi LS3.5
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Dayens Ampino, Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, AURALiC Altair, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,136
    otomato wrote: »
    @6ohms its 190wpc and 4 at 240wpc.

    That's with ONE channel driven at 1% distortion!
    @ 8ohms in papers stated as 9ch total @760w. This is the part where Im lost. I have no idea at what wpc this amp runs at 8ohms.

    A rough number, divide 760 by 9, so about 85wpc all channels driven.

    Pioneer used to provide much better spec info.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • arekonarekon Posts: 77
    howdya get that receiver? appears to be a euro-model..
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,330
    edited April 22
    otomato wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    I still stand with my opinion. The receiver has pre-outs, so if you feel that an amp will be needed, then you can add one.

    You also mentioned use as HT speakers, then if you want to up the experience then add a subwoofer to your system. This will lighten the loads on the AVR.

    yes it has pre-outs. I don't think I would need an amp for it other then subwoofer.
    WOW!! You still stand with your opinion. It really gave me confidence in buying S60 already ... thanks ... :blush:

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    Yes sir, it was the last of the ICE class D amp series and true Elites, before the housing market crash ate Pioneers true Elite status.

    A sub will come with it's own amp, really makes the HT experience true
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • mantismantis Posts: 14,623
    F1nut wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »
    @6ohms its 190wpc and 4 at 240wpc.

    That's with ONE channel driven at 1% distortion!
    @ 8ohms in papers stated as 9ch total @760w. This is the part where Im lost. I have no idea at what wpc this amp runs at 8ohms.

    A rough number, divide 760 by 9, so about 85wpc all channels driven.

    Pioneer used to provide much better spec info.
    I find this so annoying. Most companies do this to confuse the un educated buyer into thinking it has more power then it actually does. I can't stand the numbers game or any other games these people play.

    But Pioneer receivers with ICE or Class D amps over the last decade all have been very good and very solid for performing their duties and sounding great doing so.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • sgmsmgsgmsmg Posts: 212
    otomato wrote: »

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    You should see my SC-09TX that I still use:

    myhh5ndsnk4b.jpg
    2 Channel
    Pre:Parasound JC2BP
    Amp:Parasound A21
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Ones
    Source: Oppo 103D, Mac Mini, Bryston BDA-3
    Cables: AQ Castlerock Speaker, AQ Columbia XLR/RCA, AQ Diamond USB
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60

    Home Theater
    Reciever: Pioneer Elite SC-99
    Amp: Pioneer Elite SC-09TX
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 703 (Fl, FR, RL, RR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB13 x 3
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Power: PS Audio P5 Regenerator, Furman IT Reference 15i, Pangea AC14SE and AC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR75X940D
  • arekonarekon Posts: 77
    mantis wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »
    @6ohms its 190wpc and 4 at 240wpc.

    That's with ONE channel driven at 1% distortion!
    @ 8ohms in papers stated as 9ch total @760w. This is the part where Im lost. I have no idea at what wpc this amp runs at 8ohms.

    A rough number, divide 760 by 9, so about 85wpc all channels driven.

    Pioneer used to provide much better spec info.
    I find this so annoying. Most companies do this to confuse the un educated buyer into thinking it has more power then it actually does. I can't stand the numbers game or any other games these people play.

    But Pioneer receivers with ICE or Class D amps over the last decade all have been very good and very solid for performing their duties and sounding great doing so.

    but on the same hand, its common to think people new to the trade that buy 250watt speakers need 250wpc. myself included.
  • otomato2otomato2 Posts: 4
    edited April 23
    this topic may NOT RELATED TO THIS THREAD ...

    MODs ... please tell me as to why I was banned ... :(
    enlightened me please
  • otomato2otomato2 Posts: 4
    sgmsmg wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    You should see my SC-09TX that I still use:

    myhh5ndsnk4b.jpg

    If it is still in use why was the cables disconnected :o

  • otomato2otomato2 Posts: 4
    mantis wrote: »
    Most companies do this to confuse the un educated buyer into thinking it has more power then it actually does.

    ouch ... cause Im one of them ... :s

  • mantismantis Posts: 14,623
    arekon wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »
    @6ohms its 190wpc and 4 at 240wpc.

    That's with ONE channel driven at 1% distortion!
    @ 8ohms in papers stated as 9ch total @760w. This is the part where Im lost. I have no idea at what wpc this amp runs at 8ohms.

    A rough number, divide 760 by 9, so about 85wpc all channels driven.

    Pioneer used to provide much better spec info.
    I find this so annoying. Most companies do this to confuse the un educated buyer into thinking it has more power then it actually does. I can't stand the numbers game or any other games these people play.

    But Pioneer receivers with ICE or Class D amps over the last decade all have been very good and very solid for performing their duties and sounding great doing so.

    but on the same hand, its common to think people new to the trade that buy 250watt speakers need 250wpc. myself included.
    Which is so confusing for those who have no idea it's horrible. Not many systems not matter what kind os speakers you own require 250 watt amps.
    When you have 4 ohm 85db speakers in a large room then yeah having that kind of power makes sense. When you have 8 ohm speakers at lets say 89db or higher anything with good current output from 50 watts and up will get the job done and very well.
    Most 100 watt amps on the market of good quality can power basically any speaker most common people buy. There are few speakers that are hard to drive that common folks buy. This doesn't hold true for audiophile and higher end stuff as they are mostly 4 to 6 ohm stuff with harder to drive 88 and lower db ratings. This is when you will want and need higher output higher current higher watt amps. The reason is to move air and control bass. When you don't power speakers properly you don't get to hear how good they can sound. You can also damage speakers with lower watt lower current amps that struggle to handle the load of a given speaker.

    With just about all polk speakers with the exception of some of their 4 ohm load stuff, you can use just about anything to power them of good to higher quality.
    So what I'll do is give you an example of a nice well balanced dual duty speaker package with a correctly powered receiver that mates well and you will be very satisfied with the overall performance. You can always go higher end to get more and add power amps to get more but this isn't always required. I have done countless theater rooms and media / family style rooms over the decades and this is a basic idea to start with.

    So lets use the RTIA series from polk since it's probably the most common speakers they have sold over the decades.
    If you lets say purchase the RTIA7's and then get the rest of the matching speaker package, you will need lets just say a 5.1 system, you will need a quality receiver to power them without damaging them.

    So I will use Pioneer Elite as an example. I would not use a standard Pioneer receiver or anything under a $800.00 retail price point. So I would use as a minimum receiver a Pioneer Elite SC model. I would not use a VSX model. SO if you look at the current line up , all VSX models I would avoid. I would start at the SC LX-501 and go up from there. The reason is the RTIA7's are a very nice affordable speaker that if you send them some quality power, they sound really good. If you send them sub par power, they don't perform as well as they can. Remember this is the lowest I would go and I would also not over spend on a higher end AVR like a SC LX901 level model. Some out there would go way further and go buy Rotel Power amps, mono blocks and what have you but in my professional opinion I can build a much better sounding system with better balance using a higher end speaker with higher end amps and what nots. I feel the RTIA series is very good but very limited to how high end of power you should go before you should consider better speakers like the LSIM series.

    So with the LSIM series speakers in mind , I would start depending on which system you build with them a Pioneer Elite SC LX701. I would also go flagship SC LX901 easily or consider going separates depending on your budget and demand on such a much nicer speaker.

    Now if your game is the TSI RM or Monitor series, you can use the Pioneer Elite VSX series or even drop down the standard Pioneer models. Again the idea when mating speakers to receivers or visa versa you want to build a balanced system.
    You don't want to use a entry level receiver with higher end speakers and visa versa.
    You would be creating a un balanced system that for the same amount of money spent , you could have built a better performing system.

    So the speaker ratings can be very misleading. Most of the time the numbers are marketing for make them seem like something they are not and this holds very true for amp receiver power ratings. They play the numbers game and fool you into believing they have way more power then they actually do.

    There are some companies like NAD who rate their stuff very accurately and give you real world numbers. When you use their products you shake your head at the numbers as they always perform better then expected.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 14,623
    sgmsmg wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    You should see my SC-09TX that I still use:

    myhh5ndsnk4b.jpg


    Yes the mighty 09, I almost purchased one back in the day and decided to save a few pennies and go with the SC-07. I don't regret that decision and it free'd up some budget money to fund other purchases but I wish I had just a few more pennies at that time and was able to grab one.
    I also wish Pioneer would bring this model back with a new up to date preamp section. This is the best Pioneer Elite receiver IMO they ever built. That damn thing sounds as good as most separates in it's day. It was amazing as I have powered many large theaters with it and with an array of different speakers including very hard to drive Martin Logan full 7.2 theater packages. I did many Vienna and Sonos Faber systems that sounded incredible. I felt no need to go any higher.
    Man I love that thing and miss it dearly.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • sgmsmgsgmsmg Posts: 212
    otomato2 wrote: »
    sgmsmg wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    You should see my SC-09TX that I still use:

    myhh5ndsnk4b.jpg

    If it is still in use why was the cables disconnected :o

    This was the only picture I had readily available. I had debated selling it but changed my mind and put it back in use.
    2 Channel
    Pre:Parasound JC2BP
    Amp:Parasound A21
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Ones
    Source: Oppo 103D, Mac Mini, Bryston BDA-3
    Cables: AQ Castlerock Speaker, AQ Columbia XLR/RCA, AQ Diamond USB
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60

    Home Theater
    Reciever: Pioneer Elite SC-99
    Amp: Pioneer Elite SC-09TX
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 703 (Fl, FR, RL, RR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB13 x 3
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Power: PS Audio P5 Regenerator, Furman IT Reference 15i, Pangea AC14SE and AC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR75X940D
  • sgmsmgsgmsmg Posts: 212
    mantis wrote: »
    sgmsmg wrote: »
    otomato wrote: »

    You still running Pioneer SC35? ... She is an absolute Elite Beast :smile:

    You should see my SC-09TX that I still use:

    myhh5ndsnk4b.jpg


    Yes the mighty 09, I almost purchased one back in the day and decided to save a few pennies and go with the SC-07. I don't regret that decision and it free'd up some budget money to fund other purchases but I wish I had just a few more pennies at that time and was able to grab one.
    I also wish Pioneer would bring this model back with a new up to date preamp section. This is the best Pioneer Elite receiver IMO they ever built. That damn thing sounds as good as most separates in it's day. It was amazing as I have powered many large theaters with it and with an array of different speakers including very hard to drive Martin Logan full 7.2 theater packages. I did many Vienna and Sonos Faber systems that sounded incredible. I felt no need to go any higher.
    Man I love that thing and miss it dearly.

    It sounds really good driving my LSiM703/703 surround setup. I use it strictly as an amp and use my SC-99 as a Preamp/drive my ATMOS speakers.
    2 Channel
    Pre:Parasound JC2BP
    Amp:Parasound A21
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Ones
    Source: Oppo 103D, Mac Mini, Bryston BDA-3
    Cables: AQ Castlerock Speaker, AQ Columbia XLR/RCA, AQ Diamond USB
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60

    Home Theater
    Reciever: Pioneer Elite SC-99
    Amp: Pioneer Elite SC-09TX
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 703 (Fl, FR, RL, RR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB13 x 3
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Power: PS Audio P5 Regenerator, Furman IT Reference 15i, Pangea AC14SE and AC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR75X940D
  • otomato2otomato2 Posts: 4
    sgmsmg wrote: »
    This was the only picture I had readily available. I had debated selling it but changed my mind and put it back in use.

    If I were you I would have use it till it went kaput.
    Back then I love the look of beastly amps. But Ministry of Finance would not agree in me purchasing it. Luckily for me she still does not know the purchase I made with Nikon d810, till now ... heheee >:)

  • sgmsmgsgmsmg Posts: 212
    "Ministry of finance" :D
    2 Channel
    Pre:Parasound JC2BP
    Amp:Parasound A21
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Ones
    Source: Oppo 103D, Mac Mini, Bryston BDA-3
    Cables: AQ Castlerock Speaker, AQ Columbia XLR/RCA, AQ Diamond USB
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60

    Home Theater
    Reciever: Pioneer Elite SC-99
    Amp: Pioneer Elite SC-09TX
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 703 (Fl, FR, RL, RR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB13 x 3
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Power: PS Audio P5 Regenerator, Furman IT Reference 15i, Pangea AC14SE and AC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR75X940D
  • arekonarekon Posts: 77
    she sounds fancier than my CFO.
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