What speakers to use for a very, very unusual audio setup

Bill in MD

Hi there: I'm back after a very long absence, and here’s the deal: My wife is a church organist. She recently obtained a practice-at-home instrument, configured to function via an application called Hauptwerk, which is essentially a pipe-organ simulator that allows you to “play” via a computer this or that specific organ that they digitally sampled note by note. So you can pretend to be at the Mormon Tabernacle one day and Westminster Abbey the next. The previous owner (who has died) had a number of speakers in the setup, which I think were to simulate a surround-sound effect. The amplifier was I think a seven-channel one; there’s also an “audio interface” but I have no idea what that is or does.

The speakers that came with it all are (pictures attached):

• Four subwoofers (Polk Audio [2], Infinity [1], and Definitive Supercube III [1])
• Polk Audio SDA-2 (pair)
• Bose 501 series IV (pair)
• Infinity Entra (L-R-center)
• Note that we also own a pair of Cerwin-Vegas (model 39P, apparently) that are probably 35 years old, which are with the stereo in the living room.

The fellow who installed it all replaced the seven-channel amp with a (make as-yet unknown) two-channel amp, because there wasn’t room to fit the bigger one in the new physical configuration at our house, but we could probably get it back if need be…but I doubt we will need it.

So, what my wife wants is two speakers and a subwoofer, with some flexibility in placement of those items. Our questions/thoughts:

• Remember that pipe organs have a huge dynamic range and an equally huge frequency range.
• The Infinity Entra set will almost definitely not do the trick; they will probably end up with the TV upstairs.
• Will any of the other speakers (including the Cerwin-Vegas) be capable of handling the vast range of sounds that an organ can command?
• Will one or another of the speaker pairs be better suited technically to this function, meaning less prone to X, Y, or Z issues? (And I don’t know what those issues might be.)
• Will one or another of the speaker pairs be better suited technically to working with a subwoofer?
• The Definitive subwoofer is currently not working at all, and is out at the shop for diagnosis and repair; the fellow who did the installation thinks it will be the best-suited to this function but we are certainly open to suggestions.
• Which of the speaker pairs would be best-suited to the stereo in the living room? We listen to probably 85% classical and 15% other things, but no head-banging stuff unless you count the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony or the like.

In short, we are looking for any opinions and suggestions! I know that this will ultimately come down to trial-and-error and personal preference, but I think some of my questions are specific enough that guidance/suggestions will be welcome. (FYI we will probably sell whatever we don't use for the organ and the stereo.)

Many thanks in advance! Bill

msg

Man, seems like a tall order there there trying to replicate a pipe organ's range in a home, eh? I had no idea just how broad a range they hit until I started reading about low frequency performance around here and saw mention of it.

What are you using for the front end? Is there a preamp, or is it the computer directly into the amp?

Yeah, try to find out which amp options you had/have.

How big's the space, anyway?

First glance over the gear list, I'd say start with SDA-2's and the Deftech Supercube.

Someone else can talk to you about the SDA-2's requirements. You'll need the interconnect cable and a common ground amp. I'm not sure what gen speaker this is and/or whether it can use an isolation transformer if the amp is not common ground.

Don't know that I'd mix all those different speakers, though, even if you can?

VR3

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/installations-higher-power

Definitive bipolar/powered subs have characteristics the applications

Emlyn

Properly set up, if the SDAs are set up so your wife sits between them in the SDA sweet spot the result would be almost as good as a surround system. Possibly better. Looks like the SDA interconnect cable is in place.

The Def Tech Supercube III is the best of the bunch of the subwoofers. The overall frequency response on that is down to 16 Hz which will shake the room when it's fixed. Hopefully it's just a blown fuse.

The drawback with SDAs is they are not flexible in placement. The rule of thumb is at least 3 feet from each side wall in the room and close up against the wall. That means the minimum wall length for the speakers to work optimally is 15 to 16 feet. The best seating position would be about 6 to 8 feet from the center spot between the speakers. They are also not toed in but the fronts of the speakers have to be level and facing straight forward. My recommendation is to sell the rest of the gear and buy a good two channel amplifier that has output in the 200 watt per channel range.

VR3

FWIW - DT products are rated at overall (approx. -10db) so that output at 16hz is more like... -3db 25-28hz, FWIW

tonyb

Bill,
If the goal is 2 channel with a subwoofer for pipe organ music, the only piece of gear on that list to keep is the SDA's. Sell everything else and buy an SVS subwoofer or Velodyne. Get yourself some decent cables too. Also not sure on the other electronics, amps, pre amps, dacs, receiver ? Everything plays a part in what you'll hear. How big is the room this will be in also dictates choices in gear.

Not sure what you mean by having some flexibility in placement of said speakers and subwoofer.

Jim Shearer

My two cents:
The SDA's are probably capable of handling the task in a residential size space (when supplemented by a subwoofer). However, I would think that their potential is wasted in this sort of application. They might give you more enjoyment in your main listening space.

Pro-sound applications are best handled by pro gear. This isn't an audiophile situation. I would be looking at a really big pro amp (probably minimum of 300 wpc into 8 ohms, even with the low freqs removed & re-directed to the subwoofer) and pro speakers. Even well recorded music has been significantly processed to bring down peak demands. Real instruments can do serious damage to home equipment. Pro speakers look ugly, but they are built to take a licking & keep on ticking. I'm sure there must be music stores near you that cater to the needs of musicians, schools & churches.

And do be careful with the low end/subwoofer stuff! There are a couple of big names in audio who wanted to build the ultimate subwoofer: flat response into the single digits & super powerful. Seems they did serious structural damage to their homes! (wish I could remember names...)

This is just my opinion as a retired volunteer sound tech for a children's theater group.

As always: YMMV.

Cheers, Jim

Inspector 24

No combination of what you have will do an organ justice. No sub can go low enough at high enough volume and quality to do an organs wide range justice, no speakers you have will either but maybe the polks with modifications.

Sell everything, buy a single larger 13-15" well powered sub (HSU OR SVS are awesome) and some good newer large bookshelf speakers or medium-large floor standing speakers with a dedicated separate amp to run them.

Next, what's your budget?

Bill in MD

Well, there is no budget. We have to work only with what we have. We will probably sell some of the speakers at some point and might thus have a little money to do something small, but it's far more likely that we will use whatever money we generate to pay bills.

We are very well aware that this will not sound like a pipe organ in an acoustically nice space. This is a practice instrument, intended to mimic the selected organ as best it can under these very limiting circumstances.

Meanwhile, here's a little more info: the room is about 15 x 20, with a ceiling that's generally about 7 1/2 feet high but drops for a stretch to about 6 feet.

tonyb

I'll stick with my original thoughts. Keep the SDA's, sell everything else, buy a used SVS subwoofer to save a buck. Anything else can be upgraded later.

Jim Shearer

OK, if you can't change much of anything, be sure that the 2 channel amp is of the common ground type. Running SDA's with a class-D amp will result in a blown amp.

And be sure you have enough power in that amp. Doubling the loudness by a factor of two requires ten times the power. And bass is more power hungry than the mids or highs. Does the 'audio interface' relieve the main speakers of bass duty? If not, then adjust power requirements accordingly. It is a common mistake to think that if you have a 300 wpc amp and speakers that can handle 500 watts, then you are safe. The 500 watts assumes a clean music signal. 300 watts of DC caused by clipping the signal can turn the voice coils into little cigarette lighters!

Good luck & keep us posted.

Cheers, Jim