Did I make a bad speaker cable purchase?

Quick background first: I've had my RTi A7s for a couple months and am finally getting around to upgrading the rest of my setup accordingly. I recently purchased a B&K EX-442 amp to go with my Denon x3300 (thanks for the help re: that forum post guys), which should improve the speakers dramatically while adding a bit warmer sound, which I tend to like (not that the A7s were too harsh). Along with the amp, I purchased a some BJC LC-1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OJLNEOU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) cables to run between the amp/receiver based on some budget conscious recommendations on this forum.

Now, I'm looking to swap out the cheap Frys speaker cable I have running to the A7s, but I think I made a mistake. I read that Canare 4S11 is a good budget option and bought some off Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SPVJDRW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) before I realized the recommendation was for the BJC Canare 4S11.

*Now for my question(s)*

Should I return the Canare 4S11 and get the BJC version? I assume the assembly can make a difference, but we're already talking about rather minor sonic differences between cable, given the rest of my setup. I also realize I didn't take care of the jumper plate, which means I'll need to make another purchase for jumper cables assuming I don't send what I bought back and get something bi-wired. On that note, since I went the budget route with the BJC LC-1, would it even make a difference if I, for example, hit up Doug for some nice custom-made cables like these: http://douglasconnection.com/Custom-Made-Furez-12AWG-Bi-Wire-OFHC-Speaker-Cables-DCF124BW.htm?

Ideally, I'd like to keep my cable purchases to a budget amount -- which is currently ~$126 for the receiver->amp and amp->speaker runs. I know there's a difference as you get higher quality runs, but I'm hesitant to spend significantly more at this point with a small return on SQ. In short, if you have budget recs/alternatives to what I bought, please share. If you have a somewhat pricier recommendation but can vouch for a major SQ difference, I'm also interested in hearing it.

Thanks in advance!
Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
Denon x3300 receiver
Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
BIC F12 sub

Comments

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 16,072
    You will do just fine with the Canare based upon the gear you will be using it with.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive with ClearAudio Titanium v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, Pass Labs Xono twin chassis phono preamplifier, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo BDP-95 Bluray, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds


    Men are like a very fine wine. They start off as grapes, and it takes the love of a Woman to stomp the crap out of them in order to make them something modestly acceptable to have dinner with...
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,418
    Canare is Canare cable...............no matter who sells it.

    The BJC stuff is the same as the Amazon stuff.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 917
    edited April 14
    Send it back! Get some 10awg Furez from Doug and some good banana's from Amazon. Make your own for about $60.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Marantz SR5010,
    Oppo BDP-93,Panasonic BDT460, DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk Signature S30
    Front High TC80i
    Rear: Polk RC80i
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk TSX250C
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,349
    Too much work mrloran. This saves you from going to a second website.

    http://www.douglasconnection.com/Alpha-21-OCC-DIY-Interconnect-Cable-Kit-AlphaDIYICKit.htm
  • warrenwarren Posts: 489
    Work, it's a four letter word..
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • adrift02adrift02 Posts: 25
    edited April 14
    Thx for the answers guys. I'm going to send back the Canare I bought because it's not bi-amped. Still deciding whether I want to save a buck and reorder the BJC Canare bi-amped or go with the more expensive option from Doug. If I went that route I'd be doubling what I'm paying for cables though, especially if I don't make it from parts. Just not sure it's worth it over BJC given my setup, which is mid-fi at best...

    I'll think about it and I appreciate all the responses!
    Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
    Denon x3300 receiver
    Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
    Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
    BIC F12 sub
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 6,911
    Just make jumpers out of the Canare, you don't need to return it.
    | Front - Dynaudio Emit M20 | Center - N/A | Rear - Polk Monitor 4 | Sub - N/A |
    | AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
    | Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
    | TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |

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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 16,072
    adrift02 wrote: »
    Thx for the answers guys. I'm going to send back the Canare I bought because it's not bi-amped. Still deciding whether I want to save a buck and reorder the BJC Canare bi-amped or go with the more expensive option from Doug. If I went that route I'd be doubling what I'm paying for cables though, especially if I don't make it from parts. Just not sure it's worth it over BJC given my setup, which is mid-fi at best...

    I'll think about it and I appreciate all the responses!

    Dougs cables are connected to many rigs here. His stuff is top notch as is his integrity. You will be doing yourself a favor by going with him.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive with ClearAudio Titanium v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, Pass Labs Xono twin chassis phono preamplifier, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo BDP-95 Bluray, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds


    Men are like a very fine wine. They start off as grapes, and it takes the love of a Woman to stomp the crap out of them in order to make them something modestly acceptable to have dinner with...
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,323
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    That's good counsel, @adrift02.

    Doug and his products are excellent and excellent value. For the budget you have, he'll give you a good product, or he will tell you how to get what you are looking for.

    On another note, perhaps others on this Forum have differing opinions, but My experience with Canare 4S11 cables is that they are very bright, the opposite of the coloration you said you were looking for.
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 MKII Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps or CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 Preamp, AQ King Cobra RCAs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 8,329
    $12 and peace of mind..
  • adrift02adrift02 Posts: 25
    edited April 15
    So let's say I went with Doug. Would I need to replace the BJC interconnect as well? Seems like differing cables in the line from source to speaker would matter.

    Regarding turning the Canare into a jumper, how would I go about that being that they're already terminated with bananas?
    Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
    Denon x3300 receiver
    Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
    Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
    BIC F12 sub
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,349
    Not absolutely necessary to change interconnects to agree with speaker wire. Sometimes they don't mesh well, sometimes they do. If there is something about the sound you dislike, describe it, include all components and wire/cable, and you'll get more advise than you want.

  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 1,974
    Canare 4S11 is a fantastic budget cable.

    You have zero need to send it back.

    I've used it for years and I find it to be a very neutral cable.

    Personally I buy it unterminated and terminate with AudioQuest BFA's.

    It's used to wire up all of my HT speakers...
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku 3 : Oppo BDP-103 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    The Canare cable is a good budget cable, but wouldn't be my first choice if looking to add warmth or tame the highs on those speakers. In the world of Budget cables, new....can't really think of any with a warmer top end.

    Used cables, different story.

    Kimber cable, MIT, Acoustic zen, Analysis Plus, Wireworld.......come to mind. Gregg Straley Reality cables go for about 150 bucks for an 8 ft pair used and have some nice warmth to them.

    As far as speaker cables and interconnects matching, some prefer it, some don't. Think of a recipe to bake a cake, many ingredients to get the results you want. Cables are just an ingredient to tailor the sound to your preferences, they all don't have to match.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • adrift02adrift02 Posts: 25
    Thanks again, all. I'll give the Canares a shot with the amp and see how that goes before switching things around. While I generally prefer a warm, mid-focused sound signature, the A7s sound fine to me and aren't too bright. Once I'm running the B&K I think a brighter cable will probably pair nicely given how warm / tubey it's supposed to sound...
    Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
    Denon x3300 receiver
    Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
    Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
    BIC F12 sub
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 37,669
    The A7's are inherently bright. If you don't think they are you've got a warm rig already or upper hearing loss. IMO.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • adrift02adrift02 Posts: 25
    They are definitely bright, just saying they aren't too bright for me (It's mainly sibilance that I'm sensitive to and can't stand). That being said, I'll definitely appreciate the warmer sig the B&K will bring, and I'm assuming the cable won't shift it too much the other way.
    Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
    Denon x3300 receiver
    Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
    Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
    BIC F12 sub
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 27,355
    adrift02 wrote: »
    They are definitely bright, just saying they aren't too bright for me (It's mainly sibilance that I'm sensitive to and can't stand). That being said, I'll definitely appreciate the warmer sig the B&K will bring, and I'm assuming the cable won't shift it too much the other way.

    I hope it works for you, have to try anyway right ? If sibilance is your thing, and to most people it is, budget cables usually don't conquer that issue. It's an inherit flaw I've found in many brands of budget cables. Some to a greater degree than others.

    Can also be the gear contributing to sibilance, or your source material. Sibilance is like tracking down ground loop hum, you just want it gone, but might take some detective work.
    legacy Focus 20/20
    Butler tdb 2250
    Cary Xciter dac
    Joule LA-100
    Pioneer BDP 320
    Sony 4k 55 850c
    FX 500 surround
    Acoustic zen Satori SC's
    Pioneer elite vsx21
    Sonos-Cullen mod.
    Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
    PS Audio Quintet
    Analysis Plus crystal ovals
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
  • adrift02adrift02 Posts: 25
    tonyb wrote: »
    adrift02 wrote: »
    They are definitely bright, just saying they aren't too bright for me (It's mainly sibilance that I'm sensitive to and can't stand). That being said, I'll definitely appreciate the warmer sig the B&K will bring, and I'm assuming the cable won't shift it too much the other way.

    I hope it works for you, have to try anyway right ? If sibilance is your thing, and to most people it is, budget cables usually don't conquer that issue. It's an inherit flaw I've found in many brands of budget cables. Some to a greater degree than others.

    Can also be the gear contributing to sibilance, or your source material. Sibilance is like tracking down ground loop hum, you just want it gone, but might take some detective work.

    So far so good with my setup. Sibilance pops up with some source material, but it's generally a bad recording, and I'd hear it with any remotely detailed speakers. The A7s are bright, but I haven't heard them turn up more sibilance than normal, which some of my very detailed IEMs will do. If I can get some silky smooth vocals out of the B&K + A7 combo I'll be a very happy camper.
    Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma
    Denon x3300 receiver
    Polk RTi A7 mains / B&K EX442 amp
    Polk CS2 center (CSI A6 on the way)
    BIC F12 sub
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 917
    rpf65 wrote: »
    Too much work mrloran. This saves you from going to a second website.

    http://www.douglasconnection.com/Alpha-21-OCC-DIY-Interconnect-Cable-Kit-AlphaDIYICKit.htm

    Nice interconnect cables there,

    This is the speaker cable I was suggesting http://douglasconnection.com/Furez-10-AWG-2-Conductor-Speaker-Cable-Raw-FZ102.htm

    And the banana connectors https://www.amazon.com/Audioquest-SureGrip-Silver-Bananas-pack/dp/B00TQ1D5W4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1492487268&sr=1-3&keywords=audioquest+banana+plugs

    Doug does sell Furez banana's @ $25 a pair.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Marantz SR5010,
    Oppo BDP-93,Panasonic BDT460, DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk Signature S30
    Front High TC80i
    Rear: Polk RC80i
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk TSX250C
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • helipilotdoughelipilotdoug Posts: 1,046
    Good Golly!! Thanks for all those kind words guys :) @Adrift02 Please contact me with any questions you might have. As a Club Polk member, you will get a 10% discount on most anything you purchase. Also, depending on the length you need, I might have some used cables you can pick up at substantial savings.
    https://www.douglasconnection.com/contactus.sc
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's

    http://www.douglasconnection.com
  • scubalabscubalab Posts: 1,813
    Definitely great advice on going with Doug's stuff. I've had both the Canare 4S11 and some Furez (from Doug). To do what you want and to keep it on a budget, I'd go with this:

    http://douglasconnection.com/Furez-14AWG-4-Conductor-Speaker-Cable-Raw-FZ144.htm

    Twenty feet will run around $25 with the CP discount.

    Add 6 pair of these and you could bi-wire and still be under $100 total for the pair:

    http://douglasconnection.com/Audiophile-Gold-Plated-Locking-Banana-Plugs-MTBP192.htm

    Keep in mind that you'd need to build these yourself. That'd probably take 1/2 - 1 hour. Add some heatshrink for a cleaner look.

    I'd think 10 AWG is a little over-kill for 10' runs. You'd be fine with 12 or 14 AWG. Remember, the Canare 4S11 is four 14 AWG conductors. Not bi-wired, two conductors combined is about 11 AWG.

    All this said, if you like the Canare cables you already have from Amazon, for a couple bucks more, buy some raw 4S11 cable (You'd probably need less than two feet. Take 6" - 10" of the two red conductors, twist them and maybe add some spades (then do the same with two black conductors) and make matching jumpers. Easy peasy, and very cost effective. Personally, I don't think bi-wiring vs. single wire from the amp and a jumper wire of the same type will net you any difference in sound.

    Definitely talk to Doug though. He'll help to get you to exactly where you want to be. He can even hook you up with some adhesive heatshrink and tech flex if you want to go that far and DIY.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 13,202
    msg wrote: »
    scubalab wrote: »
    Keep in mind that you'd need to build these yourself. That'd probably take 1/2 - 1 hour. Add some heatshrink for a cleaner look.
    HAAAAA!!! Thanks Al. Man, I think my first set of cables took me 8+ hours. Subsequent cables not much better. Gave me a newfound respect for what Doug does :)

    Not to scare anyone off doing this, it's definitely worth the experience, and it's fantastic that Doug offers these DIY kits and answers questions to help out, but man, it's a lot more work than it looks, keeping the process straight and learning how everything works if you've never made cables before.

    Then again, when it comes to this stuff, I'm probably just a bit
    usfmcqov189q.jpg

    Hah. You found our ride to Salt Grass next weekend.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Usher: CP-6311, Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Fiesole, Volterra, Polk: T50, Signature S60, S55, S35, S30, S20, S15, RTA 15tl, Sonner Audio Allegro Unum
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Dayens Ampino, Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, AURALiC Altair, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design Magnifico, North Star Design Supremo
    Cabling: Wireworld
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  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 917
    Here is the thread for the Furez I got from Doug. http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/165155/new-furez-cable-wow#latest

    I am going to replace the GLS locking banana's this weekend (if I have time) with Audioquest silver BFA plugs.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Marantz SR5010,
    Oppo BDP-93,Panasonic BDT460, DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk Signature S30
    Front High TC80i
    Rear: Polk RC80i
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk TSX250C
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • rednedtugentrednedtugent Posts: 10,277
    Some would say match the connector and plug type. YMMV
  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 1,974
    I've used the silver BFA's with gold binding posts without issue.

    What would be the concern?
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku 3 : Oppo BDP-103 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
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