Timber Matching Question

ChiroVette
ChiroVette Posts: 8
edited March 2017 in Speakers
Hey, everyone, I am new here!

Anyway, I just recently built a new home theater system from the ground up, lol literally! Picked up a brand new Sony XBOR75X940D TV, 3D glasses, PS4 Pro, XBox One S, Denon S920W receiver, and a bunch of Polk speakers. Note that my system is entry level, which may effect your answers to my questions

Now I snagged a couple of of Monitor70's Series II from Newegg for my front left and right. I picked up a SW505 Sub. I was originally going with some REALLY OLD JBL Northbridge N24 Surrounds (4 of them) and the N-Center from the same JBL line, but I was not happy with the setup.

So I just purchased a Polk 25C, Center channel, and I really want 4 Monitor 30's for the Surround.

Problem is they are discontinued and very hard to come by. I snagged a couple of Monitor 30 Series II on eBay (that are new from a seller) but I just noticed the picture has the silver face, so unless the seller used generic pics for his ad, he mislabeled them and they are really the Series I. No worries.

But I could just refuse delivery if they are the older ones, if I want. But I am not closed to the idea of the original Monitor 30's.

Anyway, sorry about the long intro, and onto my question:

I talked to the tech support on the phone, and my concern was timber matching. He actually recommended 4 of the TSX-110B Polk, as my surround speakers, and he assured me that they would absolutely be timber matched to the Monitor 70's, SW505 Sub, and 25C. I just wanted some opinions from my fellow Polk consumers. Is this true?

Also, my receiver uses Audyssey to calibrate, and both Denon and Polk tech support told me that this at least reduces or mitigates the need for timber matching. Even so, if I opted to go with the TSX-110 B, either four of them, if I return the Monitor 30s or 2 of them, if I keep the Monitor 30's, will either scenario work for timber matching needs?

I was considering just buying 4 Monitor 40's as my Surrounds, but they are a little too large for my small living room. I think the cabinet with one woofer would be better for my setup, logistically speaking.

Thoughts?

Thanks, everyone!



Comments

  • Anyone?

    Sorry to bump this, but this should be a pretty straightforward question.
  • You gotta give us a few minutes to answer, we are slow readers.
    Denon X1200W
    Sony BDP S-590
    Mains Signature S60
    Center Signature S55
    Surrounds Polk RTi-4
  • Hahahaha no worries, WVHillbilly. I actually waited just over five hours before bumpage. And the only reason I did, was because I saw other activity in this forum on the first page, so I just wanted to get anyone's attention, since I perused the forum and you guys are like Polk Speaker Rockstars. ;)
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    Monitor and TSX line are closely related, so I wouldn't be surprised if they say they're timbre matched. Don't worry about the sub matching - that's not really a thing. If Polk recommended it, I think you're ok.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    Now you tell me... What do you think of that Denon S920W? I was thinking of picking one up.
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Never mix pine with oak.
  • I am having a lot of trouble posting my comment!! I will try again.

    Thanks for the timber match info, mdaudioguy!
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Now you tell me... What do you think of that Denon S920W? I was thinking of picking one up.

    Love it, BUT with one caveat that, to be quite honest, I never (and I mean NEVER) would have even thought to look into while I was researching my receiver choice. It's so DUMB, that there is simply no way I would have even thought to check for something like this before buying.

    You ready?

    When watching 4K of any kind, the on screen volume ane GUI (menu overlays) are disabled! And, to add insult to injury, whenever you are in a 4K situation, and call up a Denon menu or options screen, there is a marked lag-pause to get into the menu and to get back out of your menus and into your 4K content.

    Apparently, from what I have gathered in terms of research, after the fact, the receiver has to kick the resolution down from 4K into 1080p or 720p, whatever the menu is rendered at, and then back up again to 4K when you leave the menu. This supposedly creates a slight handshake issue every time.

    Like I said, in a MILLION years, and of all the things I researched about receivers (Audyssey, sound quality, power out put, ease of use, HDMI pass-through, AVR, number of HDMI ports, WiFi functionality, interaction with other devices, and on and on and on) menus and volume overlays being disabled in 4K was not even something I would have ever even thought of.

    I don't so much mind the menus, but I live in an upstairs apartment in a private house that is only semi-detatched, and it is really annoying not being able to know by looking at the screen what volume I am at. The volume (unlike the menu switching) works smoothly enough, but unless you are squinting your eyes to try and see the LED output on the receiver, you can't see it.

    Another oddity I have not figured out yet, is my PS4 PRO is a 4K device, and whenever I am watching anything under 4K, I can get the volume bar and GUI on the screen. But no matter what resolution my XBox One S is in, the S920W things I am in 4K, and I get nothing overlaying my picture.

    Weird, I know.
  • WVHillbilly
    WVHillbilly Posts: 94
    edited March 2017
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Now you tell me... What do you think of that Denon S920W? I was thinking of picking one up.

    I have a S1200W refurb that I got at accessories4less and it is great.
    Has many features and great sound.
    Drives my S60's without trouble.
    Denon X1200W
    Sony BDP S-590
    Mains Signature S60
    Center Signature S55
    Surrounds Polk RTi-4
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    Really appreciate that, as this was one of the main reasons I was considering a new AVR. I wanted an on-screen display for volume, etc...
  • mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Really appreciate that, as this was one of the main reasons I was considering a new AVR. I wanted an on-screen display for volume, etc...

    Well, I did a little digging. Apparently the issue with the S920W is one of bandwidth. I asked the tech support from Denon, on the phone, if the issue with the 920's lack of GUI overlays in 4K modes would be addressed in a future firmware upgrade.

    He could not tell me for certain, but he thinks it may happen.

    Still, if you want to have the benefit of 4K menu and volume overlays while in 4K modes, and you want to stay with Denon, then you need to step up to the X3300. It's a little over $200.00 more expensive than the 920W, but from all the reviews I read, it is a really fantastic higher end receiver.

    Note that the S920W is considered mid-level. So the X3300 is not just a step up in terms of GUI functionality, but also in overall sound. It has a far better Audyssey program, has more power (I believe) and is reputed to be a substantial sonic upgrade over the S920W. BUT with the following caveat: You will only really get the benefit of the superior sound of the X3300 if you have the speakers that can utilize it.

    Truth be told (and I say this as a semi pro musician who owns ALL the PA gear in my band) one of the biggest mistakes that people make, both in home theater/entertainment systems AND in pro audio is buying gear with all the bells and whistles and NOT upgrading the speakers.

    Speakers should ALWAYS come first. If you are a musician, you buy better speakers for your PA before you dump that $3K into a full tilt digital mixer with all the bells and whistles. And likewise, if you are buying home theater, and you are using the entry level Polk speakers (like I am - Monitor70's, Monitor30's, 25C, and to a lesser extent, the SW505) then you may be better off with a receiver like the S920W.

    But if you are stepping up from the entry level Polks to the medium or higher end, or already own them, than DAMN, dude, buy the X3300.

    From your sig, you are using Klipsch and Definitive technology, BOTH awesome speaker makers! But you should ask yourself if you are in the entry level line in those, like I am with the Polk (not familiar with the lines you own) or if you have the speakers that will really make use of the huge extra juice of the X3300.

    Hope this helps!

  • ChiroVette
    ChiroVette Posts: 8
    edited March 2017
    Sorry about the double post, but I am having a helluva time editing my post, and I keep "losing" the post when I do. Odd.

    Anyway, mdaudioguy, I just re-read your sig, and with the Polk speakers you own, it looks like you are still in the entry level lines, or slightly higher. I think that if you are buying a receiver for those speakers, you may want to stay with the S920W, unless GUI in 4K is important enough for you to spend the extra cash on. Or unless you know you are going to be upgrading your speakers soon.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    ChiroVette wrote: »
    Sorry about the double post, but I am having a helluva time editing my post, and I keep "losing" the post when I do. Odd.

    Anyway, mdaudioguy, I just re-read your sig, and with the Polk speakers you own, it looks like you are still in the entry level lines, or slightly higher. I think that if you are buying a receiver for those speakers, you may want to stay with the S920W, unless GUI in 4K is important enough for you to spend the extra cash on. Or unless you know you are going to be upgrading your speakers soon.

    I would have to disagree.

    The first thing you should do is listen to different brands. The all have different sound characteristics. I listed this first because it will cost you nothing to listen to different brands, and it tends to be fun.

    The second thing is to select an AVR with pre-outs. You may never add an amp, but you really want that choice in case you change your mind. The build quality is usually better in AVR's with pre-outs than without. There are exceptions of course, but a good rule of thumb.

    Get all the bells and whistles that you want, and even a couple you could care less about. If you think you only need 3 HDMI inputs, you'll will probably end up using 4 or 5 before all is said and done.

    Most calibration programs are pretty good, but none are perfect. Personally I don't care for AccuEQ (Onkyo/Integra) because, unless they recently changed it, don't calibrate the front mains L/R. Other than that, probably the biggest difference between the others is the ability to tweak settings.

    Don't get to hung up on power ratings. Not much difference between 120 and 150 watts. Besides, you have only one power supply. If a rating of 100 watts per channel, 2-channels driven is the listed spec, you'll probably have closer to 50 or 60 watts available if 5 channels are being used. The actual usable power is about half that, unless you like destroying speakers.

    Also remember that within a year or two, you will probably not have the latest and greatest features available, even if you bought the totl AVR today. Manufacturers find more things to cram into these things almost on a daily basis.

    Doesn't really matter which brand, or high up the chain a persons speakers are, the AVR wil affect their sound. Some will be a subtle change; others a more dramatic change.
  • ChiroVette
    ChiroVette Posts: 8
    edited March 2017
    rpf65 wrote: »
    I would have to disagree.

    The first thing you should do is listen to different brands. The all have different sound characteristics. I listed this first because it will cost you nothing to listen to different brands, and it tends to be fun.

    I never suggested that one shouldn't audition speakers. My only point was that upgrading from entry level speakers to mid or high level is going to do a lot more for your sound than upgrading to a different receiver.

    When one is running entry level speakers, like I am with the Polk Monitor II Series and the SW505 Sub, those speakers can't take any kind of meaningful advantage of a better receiver than the one I already have in the way that better speakers can.

    Also, of course some features are very important. But the point that I was making was not to suggest buying a crap receiver and good speakers, not at all. I love my Denon S920W. For the setup I have, its a truly amazing unit. But had I paid over $200.00 more, for the X3300, for instance, I would get very little return on that. For my speaker setup, that model Denon is perfect. If I wanted to spend more money, I would FIRST look for better speakers, and only then, a better receiver. Or simultaneously buy all of them.

    I intentionally looked for 8 HDMI inputs, even though right now I am only using 3 XBox ONe S, PS4 Pro, and Cable Box) because I know I will need more. There is a big difference, however, with making sure I have the necessary HDMI inputs, and more, as well as good quality sound, and in getting seduced by the next level in Audyssey, for instance, that my speakers cannot take any kind of advantage of.