Another off my bucket list - heard Focal Utopia Grande EM
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Joey_V
Posts: 8,519
So yesterday my local buddy and I got together (we're trying to make this a monthly thing now), started at my place for an hour or so, then traveled to Dallas to meet up with Albert Porter.
Albert has a tuesday night gathering (weekly) with local audiophiles who congregate at his house to meet and eat and drink. Sort of like a meeting of the minds of sorts. He was very gracious to invite me and my buddy over after we crossed paths on audiogon. When we got there, we were warmly welcomed, and there were 4 other audiophiles there, each one with a system to match as well.
His system as far as I know:
1. Upstream components: Allnic Dac, Allnic preamp, Allnic 5000 monoblocks - all tubes.
2. Wiring: By Purist audio, silver, top of the line stuff. I don't recall the exact models, but I expect atleast the level of my AQ WELs.
3. Power: His house had its own transformers, and he has so many dedicated outlets, that he has 3 panels just for the room.
4. Sources: A custom TT and a Studer master tape player, both on some air compressor type isolation system.
5. Racks and isolation components: All on stillpoints, so many that I lost count.
6. Speakers: Focal Grande Utopia EM III
First thing that took me aback was the size, the sheer monolithic structures that these speakers is quite jarring when you first see them... and I never really got used to the size while I was there. They were probably a little taller than I was, and I could probably crouch and fit into the lower woofer module without much difficulty.
The room was not a dedicated room in the truest sense of the word, it was colocated within a living room/dining room combo. The ceiling is sloped, maybe 10 feet at its shortest and perhaps 14-16 feet at its tallest. The room is treated, but stealthily. The room absorbers are laid to appear as if they were sheetrock, there is a diffusion panel upfront, I believe are RPG Q7 vertical array type, with a cloth sheet over it to match it to the rest of the room without calling attention to itself. There were some tube traps.
The cool thing about the place was that he was able to locate the rack away from the middle of the speakers... off to the left side to the rear of the listening area. He built conduits that lead to the floor and under the structure of the house and led to the rack unit. He also has a sunroom adjacent to the family room which allowed for access to the rear of the rack via a door.
Sound:
We listened to 70% vinyl, 10% digital, and 20% master tapes. We listened to classical, jazz, and a few cuts of Melody Gardot.
The sound was surprisingly mellow for such a large system. My friend who probably has a better ear than I do for timbre, said that the system had a very good and natural sound to it, and the timbre of the woodwinds and were just right. I found that the soundstaging was very natural and definitely not in your face (like on my system). The speakers actually disappeared and the stage extending to beyond the lateral margins of the speakers. The depth was good, but it became exceedingly stellar once we played master tape.
When master tape was spun... my first reaction was.... oh fudge me.
Sort of like when you picture a pirate with a spyglass/monoscope.... it just pulled back... like waaaay back. I would assume this is a result of increased resolution and lack of smearing.
If I were to describe Albert's sound, it was lack of glare, lack of digititis... very analog.
Conclusion:
It was a pleasure listening to a system of this caliber. It is not every day that you get to meet someone dedicated to the craft as this guy, it was also refreshing to meet someone who was obsessed to the details of the system far more than I was. It was also a good learning experience for me to hear what certain sources do for the sound and how good master tape really was. I also was very humbled by how far some people really go with this hobby of ours... makes my investment seem paltry by comparison.
At the end of the night, a few commented that after a visit to Albert's that they would take a few days to recalibrate their ears when they go back home to their own systems... after the visit, I went back home, took care of things, and then before bed, I powered up my gear in the main room. Surprisingly, I didn't feel lacking... and I didn't need to recalibrate. Sure, I may not have the utmost resolution or lacking in digital glare.... but I was still very pleased and happy with my imperfect system.
More than anything, I learned that I am approaching the point of diminishing returns... that while there is better, it costs a ton of money. I drew the line in the sand, I know I'm pretty darn close to the end for me.
Someone else might come and listen to my system and think otherwise or find nitpicks here and there.... but for me and my ears, my main rig is nearly there. A few more tweaks, a few more treatments, a few interconnects here, some better power supply there... but even then, I'm in no rush to finish it... the journey is to the point where I'm happy where I am on my path.
Albert has a tuesday night gathering (weekly) with local audiophiles who congregate at his house to meet and eat and drink. Sort of like a meeting of the minds of sorts. He was very gracious to invite me and my buddy over after we crossed paths on audiogon. When we got there, we were warmly welcomed, and there were 4 other audiophiles there, each one with a system to match as well.
His system as far as I know:
1. Upstream components: Allnic Dac, Allnic preamp, Allnic 5000 monoblocks - all tubes.
2. Wiring: By Purist audio, silver, top of the line stuff. I don't recall the exact models, but I expect atleast the level of my AQ WELs.
3. Power: His house had its own transformers, and he has so many dedicated outlets, that he has 3 panels just for the room.
4. Sources: A custom TT and a Studer master tape player, both on some air compressor type isolation system.
5. Racks and isolation components: All on stillpoints, so many that I lost count.
6. Speakers: Focal Grande Utopia EM III
First thing that took me aback was the size, the sheer monolithic structures that these speakers is quite jarring when you first see them... and I never really got used to the size while I was there. They were probably a little taller than I was, and I could probably crouch and fit into the lower woofer module without much difficulty.
The room was not a dedicated room in the truest sense of the word, it was colocated within a living room/dining room combo. The ceiling is sloped, maybe 10 feet at its shortest and perhaps 14-16 feet at its tallest. The room is treated, but stealthily. The room absorbers are laid to appear as if they were sheetrock, there is a diffusion panel upfront, I believe are RPG Q7 vertical array type, with a cloth sheet over it to match it to the rest of the room without calling attention to itself. There were some tube traps.
The cool thing about the place was that he was able to locate the rack away from the middle of the speakers... off to the left side to the rear of the listening area. He built conduits that lead to the floor and under the structure of the house and led to the rack unit. He also has a sunroom adjacent to the family room which allowed for access to the rear of the rack via a door.
Sound:
We listened to 70% vinyl, 10% digital, and 20% master tapes. We listened to classical, jazz, and a few cuts of Melody Gardot.
The sound was surprisingly mellow for such a large system. My friend who probably has a better ear than I do for timbre, said that the system had a very good and natural sound to it, and the timbre of the woodwinds and were just right. I found that the soundstaging was very natural and definitely not in your face (like on my system). The speakers actually disappeared and the stage extending to beyond the lateral margins of the speakers. The depth was good, but it became exceedingly stellar once we played master tape.
When master tape was spun... my first reaction was.... oh fudge me.
Sort of like when you picture a pirate with a spyglass/monoscope.... it just pulled back... like waaaay back. I would assume this is a result of increased resolution and lack of smearing.
If I were to describe Albert's sound, it was lack of glare, lack of digititis... very analog.
Conclusion:
It was a pleasure listening to a system of this caliber. It is not every day that you get to meet someone dedicated to the craft as this guy, it was also refreshing to meet someone who was obsessed to the details of the system far more than I was. It was also a good learning experience for me to hear what certain sources do for the sound and how good master tape really was. I also was very humbled by how far some people really go with this hobby of ours... makes my investment seem paltry by comparison.
At the end of the night, a few commented that after a visit to Albert's that they would take a few days to recalibrate their ears when they go back home to their own systems... after the visit, I went back home, took care of things, and then before bed, I powered up my gear in the main room. Surprisingly, I didn't feel lacking... and I didn't need to recalibrate. Sure, I may not have the utmost resolution or lacking in digital glare.... but I was still very pleased and happy with my imperfect system.
More than anything, I learned that I am approaching the point of diminishing returns... that while there is better, it costs a ton of money. I drew the line in the sand, I know I'm pretty darn close to the end for me.
Someone else might come and listen to my system and think otherwise or find nitpicks here and there.... but for me and my ears, my main rig is nearly there. A few more tweaks, a few more treatments, a few interconnects here, some better power supply there... but even then, I'm in no rush to finish it... the journey is to the point where I'm happy where I am on my path.
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
Comments
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Pictures (my phone died):
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
I do have a few reservations about the Grande... I just don't want to air it all out as I was only there for 2 hours and I don't know the system inside out and it would be a disservice to his work and dedication to his craft.
But suffice to say, I find vocals on mine more engaging and better defined with better palpability and density with slightly better imaging height. I can really replicate a phantasm in my room. But I find that my sound could be at the detriment of not staging not being as wide or with the sense of ease as his had.
Basically I felt like his system was coasting at 1%. While mine goes at 20%.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
I'm a bit taken aback that coasters were 12" away but not used.
Attention to detail! -
Very nice. That TV had to be a reflection nightmare right?
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rednedtugent wrote: »I'm a bit taken aback that coasters were 12" away but not used.
Attention to detail!
Sorry, can't please everyone I guess. I think I was distracted by the system rather than the coasters. Albert didn't seem to mind, his regulars were there and they weren't using the coasters either. He was a wonderful host.
Just fyi, the aquafina water bottle, that's the host's. So I don't think he cared.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Conradicles wrote: »Very nice. That TV had to be a reflection nightmare right?
I think it was a little high up and probably not a significant factor.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
...a few more treatments...
You are lacking a bit in the sound treatment department.
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Yep, I need some diffusors and bass traps.
We will be running REW in the room shortly and that will definitely shows gaps and deficiencies.
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Those are giants... tubes and focal is a match made in heaven
What's with the wires going down tubes in the floor? More gear in another room?
Still can't get over the size of those. Is this guy married? Giant speakers in the living room!2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Those are giants... tubes and focal is a match made in heaven
What's with the wires going down tubes in the floor? More gear in another room?
Still can't get over the size of those. Is this guy married? Giant speakers in the living room!
Guy is married, but near retirement age so maybe he has some leeway, no kids running around.
The wires go under the floor and reconnect where the rack is behind the couch.
The size is imposing, I never got used to the size my couple hours there.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
@Joey_V,
Thanks for the great write-up. It's not often one gets to have such an experience, and I for one am grateful to have lived it vicariously through your narrative.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
Those are giants... tubes and focal is a match made in heaven
What's with the wires going down tubes in the floor? More gear in another room?
Still can't get over the size of those. Is this guy married? Giant speakers in the living room!
The size is imposing, I never got used to the size my couple hours there.
That's what she said.....
This is like saying the elephant in the room except almost literally as they seem that massive. -
Thanks for the post Joey.
I'm pleased that you decide to to share it w/ us.rednedtugent wrote: »I'm a bit taken aback that coasters were 12" away but not used.
Attention to detail!
Sorry, can't please everyone I guess. I think I was distracted by the system rather than the coasters. Albert didn't seem to mind, his regulars were there and they weren't using the coasters either. He was a wonderful host.
Just fyi, the aquafina water bottle, that's the host's. So I don't think he cared.
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Awesome post. Glad you got to get your ears on a system like that!
I can't tell if that room seems too small for those speakers, or if my perception is just thrown way off due to the sheer size of the speakers... -
Nice write up! Sometimes people forget about timbre and how easy it is to listen to a system without getting fatigue or glare. Sometimes people get that confused with not enough highs but, if they take a step back and listen, they realize its there, its just not as in your face. At a classical concert, its not in your face ( except for some peaks) and same with Jazz especially at a smaller club. I describe that glare / fatigue as over analytical. I bet that rig if he put on some harder rock or blues, it could be more in your face as the music calls for it. In the end, it's all personal tastes.
I think it's great you have found a group of people who are into the more high end and have gatherings. You get to hear a lot of different stuff setup in a home vs a store also. The Utopia Grande is still on my bucket list to hear.
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Cool guys, hopefully you guys enjoyed the short read. As for me, I think I will make it a point to visit a few of the notable guys when I get a chance, maybe visit Mike Lavigne and Steve Williams if I ever get the chance. There's also a guy in Chicago with the Sonus Faber Fenice, so I would love to hear that and see where that stands in the grand scheme of things.
Anyway, I will be signing off for a while, no posts for the 45+ days. Given up for lent. Along with audiogon and everything else audio.
I'll be on the sidelines for a bit.
Cya!
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Liar......
Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
I used to sell Focal (*it was JM Lab back then*) and was always amazed at how easily even their lower priced bookshelf speakers could present a holographic soundstage that would go beyond the boundaries of the cabinets.
Even with NAD electronics!
Of course the Utopias ALWAYS impressed
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honestaquarian wrote: »I used to sell Focal (*it was JM Lab back then*) and was always amazed at how easily even their lower priced bookshelf speakers could present a holographic soundstage that would go beyond the boundaries of the cabinets.
Even with NAD electronics!
Of course the Utopias ALWAYS impressed
Properly set up/placed focals have an intoxicating soundstage... add tubes in there and it grows even larger. I have to agree even their small bookshelfs throw a nice soundstage.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Joey lent started yesterday, you are clearly in violation. Your reservation in hell has been confirmed.
Do you want your confirmation number, or would you rather it be emailed to you?
Joey just make sure Satan finds out you are somehow either affiliated with or know me. As soon as she finds that out, you are SO out of there. Satan can't stand me or anyone who knows me or even knows of me!
(she's just jealous, because I was getting just a tiny bit more attention that she was*) -
Joey, everyone here knows you have great taste for your own systems and they are great each and every one of them. Do you feel there will always be something bigger, better faster,smoother and what ever out there ? Did you happen to ask the weight on those Utopia Grande ? Also how did all the stacks connect, like line arrays into one out into another to the main outs to the amps ? All I can say is the closets I ever came to seeing a system like that in a house was a C/L seller who invited me into "his room" which I also almost bumped into were the 2nd from TOTL Albert Van Schweikerts. I think those went $104k. How things like that get set up is amazing to me. These were the ones, check them out. Oh, I asked to hear them but because he had 2 huge tubed mono blocks that wouldn't work for over an hour of warm up time.
https://www.vonschweikert.com/vr-9se-mkii2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-
Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc -
Geezus left, that last pic in the link?? Woof!!
That turntable looks like it will slap you upside yo silly head...sickness
Joey, bud, great read!!
Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's -
That looks like the room is far too small, and the speakers seem to be very into the corners, equal amounts from side wall and back wall.
Thought that was a for sure "no-no"? -
I'll definitely come back and read that write up again soon Joey...great job! Albert Porter is one of the serious, dedicated audiophiles out there like Mike Lavigne and Bill Legall. I agree that at your level of system development, re-climatising after hearing a truly reference system should not be too difficult as intuitively you know your system is already high end, and therefore something special. Moreover, it has been tuned by you to your tastes within your budget.
I have a friend in Queensland, Australia who has a pretty crazy system with YG Sonja 1.3's, Boulder 3060, 2120 dac, Vitus MP-L201, MP-P201, Kronos Pro tt with SCPS-1 psu, Siltech Crown cables etc. Believe it or not he has a 2nd system with Vitus Signature series amps, a full Esoteric Grandioso stack, CH Precision C1 dac & Stillpoints Aperture rack! He's upgrading his current Magico S5's in that system to something new, possibly Magico M3's? He also has a crazy headphone rig which is simply the best of everything. I plan on visiting him in the next couple of months, so i'll have to post a thread then. -
Everything supposed to sound good with Focal Grande EMIII, enuff said!Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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That looks like the room is far too small, and the speakers seem to be very into the corners, equal amounts from side wall and back wall.
Thought that was a for sure "no-no"?
I had always read that as audio law. With that said, I have noticed that many high end systems have huge bass enclosures behind the mains and cramped into or very near the corner of the room. Think Genesis1 loudspeakers.
When I had to do something similar due to lack of room on my system wall, I thought it would sound horrid. To my surprise, there isn't any discernible overemphasis of bass notes at all. Maybe it's due to the mains handling all but the extreme lowest of frequencies, maybe it's just sheer luck. I really don't know but it sounds as if there are no deficiencies with the location(s).
Here is another shot of a system that had 3 acustician's (<sp?) come in and measure for proper placement. This was the ideal location of the mains.
So maybe what you and I had always thought was audio law has a great deal of "grey area".
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I still think ideally a speaker should be matched to the room size.
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I still think ideally a speaker should be matched to the room size.
Yes, having them so into a corner, and so close to back and side walls, could not even remotely be great for the sound.
I have heard great speakers sound so-so in smaller blah rooms, and relatively average speakers really excel in bigger rooms with some thought to placement. -
I still think ideally a speaker should be matched to the room size.
Yes, having them so into a corner, and so close to back and side walls, could not even remotely be great for the sound.
I have heard great speakers sound so-so in smaller blah rooms, and relatively average speakers really excel in bigger rooms with some thought to placement.
In your own words....
So you have the same room acoustics as he has, the same hearing and the same preference in sound and music?
That is pretty bold, to be able to determine over the internet, what will work for other random strangers, who you have no clue about their situation or anything.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It seems idiotic to judge a room by a picture on the internet. I think I found the very first person to go on the bozo list.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
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