Stereo vs. AVR Digital Sound field Programs (DSP)

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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
    edited February 2017
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    @DonnerUndBlitzen
    Ah don't sweat us my friend. We all enjoy music that's why we're here. Everyone's got different budgets, spaces, ideas, and different needs.

    Most of us appreciate minimalist systems as much as high-end including myself.
    To me a true enthusiast appreciates the sound produced in any budget as a well put together system. Most important what matters is as long as you're getting enjoyment.

    Last years LSAF we had as much fun with @voltz system, as we sat around with true enthusiasts who are well known in audio as manufacturers and dealers...See pics below. As we did with my big system...last pic.

    Voltz and I are going to hodge-podge a simple system this year. I'm bringing a 12watt integrated. Marvin's dropping off some bookings. Voltz bought a CDP from a TX polkie which will get dropped off. Voltz is bringing a PC and DAC...bamm, gonna be a great little system that we will enjoy at LSAF for 4days....so pay no mind to our antics.
    Welcome to club Polk.

    http://lonestaraudiofest.com/info.html
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/171518/lone-star-audio-fest-2016/p1

    1clcdugvviq0.jpg
    pagpfgm8njsi.jpg
    y0oqf19uttzb.jpg

    Post edited by txcoastal1 on
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    And just an FYI....The truth is my big system is blamed on @KennethSwauger and Matthew Polk....ok ok and a few beers when Ken posted Matt's big amps for sale. ;)

    Snowball effect, Big amps require big speakers, then you need pre and a source.
    Moral to the story, keep your hands off the buy button when you have been drinking. B)
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    And just an FYI....The truth is my big system is blamed on @KennethSwauger and Matthew Polk....ok ok and a few beers when Ken posted Matt's big amps for sale. ;)

    Snowball effect, Big amps require big speakers, then you need pre and a source.
    Moral to the story, keep your hands off the buy button when you have been drinking. B)

    Lol, so that's the rest of the story... I remember when you struck that deal. Still, I bet you're glad you did it!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
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    Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    And just an FYI....The truth is my big system is blamed on @KennethSwauger and Matthew Polk....ok ok and a few beers when Ken posted Matt's big amps for sale. ;)

    Snowball effect, Big amps require big speakers, then you need pre and a source.
    Moral to the story, keep your hands off the buy button when you have been drinking. B)

    Lol, so that's the rest of the story... I remember when you struck that deal. Still, I bet you're glad you did it!

    Yes Sir Absolutely,
    Threshold was purchased from Nelson Pass years ago and the happened to be here in Houston. So the purchase and the refurb was a no brainer and cost effective. 250watts of Nelson Pass class A goodness.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    Nelson Pass is a hack/plebe.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,579
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    Going to have to disagree on sucking comment. IME with Yamaha's for a mid-fi system they have had bigger balls than others in their price range. Disclaimer is i have not had experience in the newer yammies. Yamaha used to really under rate their specs. My old Rx-v992 was rated @85×5 but its power supply was much heavier than many other that boasted much larger specs.
    I have enjoyed many yamaha products and never regreted the purchase.
    My .02

    Well let me back up a bit i did buy a dvd player that sucked...
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
    edited February 2017
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    lightman1 wrote: »
    Nelson Pass is a hack/plebe.

    Carolinian's are

    #### and ********* and ####-#####
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Nelson Pass is a hack/plebe.

    Carolinian's are

    #### and ********* and ####-#####

    Don't hold back, Ron. Tell us how you really feel..... :p
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    lightman1 wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Nelson Pass is a hack/plebe.

    Carolinian's are

    #### and ********* and ####-#####

    Don't hold back, Ron. Tell us how you really feel..... :p

    Vanilla won't let me
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,579
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Nelson Pass is a hack/plebe.

    Carolinian's are

    #### and ********* and ####-#####

    Don't hold back, Ron. Tell us how you really feel..... :p

    Vanilla won't let me
    Then go chocolate :p
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Moral to the story, keep your hands off the buy button when you have been drinking.

    While it is better than drinking and driving, drinking has resulted in me buying my Pass amps, and two pairs of Magico S5s. Of course, all the good things I had heard/read about Pass and Magico were also responsible. Oh well. You can't take it with you. :)


    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    The guys are just wanting you to skip a few steps in the audio journey that many of us have already taken. A short cut if you will to better sound.

    I think what they missed is your requirement for a "mid-level experience" using an AVR. That's entirely possible, the Yamaha Aventage series, Marantz, Pioneer SC series should be at the top of your list for the goal you want to achieve with RTI speakers. Add some decent cabling and source gear and you should be well within a mid-fi experience.

    Depending on if your doing a combined HT/music system or just 2 channel, the amount of gear out there by brands you never heard of will spin your head around. Most look at big box stores and think that's all the options they have. There are more brands and gear NOT sold at big box stores than there are sold inside of them.

    If your local to any of the get togethers the guys throw from time to time, pop in, meet a few dudes, listen to some brands you may not have heard of. You may find it's not as expensive as you think.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2017
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    So here's my experience over time with my older Yamaha RX-V1800.

    The sound modes such as The Roxy, The Village Vanguard, Vienna Concert Hall, Frieburg Church, PLII Music, Neo...etc are fun diversions, but quickly got forgotten about.

    A couple of exceptions are when I listen to cable music channels where I've settled on PLII Music for the surround decode option of choice, or sometimes a bluray concert disc will sound 'better' with one of the Live/Club options.

    When I play multichannel SACDs - then all the funny DSP options get turned off.

    And while, at first, using only the AVR for preamp and amp functionality provided 'good' (and satisfying results) for LPs, CDs/SACDs it was only when I stepped up to a dedicated 2-channel only integrated amp did the 'oh I get it now' light bulb go off over my head.

    Even though I was sacrificing room correction and bass management, I found I was getting better sonic results for music with going simple old school 2-channel gear. The DSP modes just don't return that much, imho, and an AVR preamp section just holds you back.

    You gotta start somewhere - so if HT is important and multichannel listening is part of that, then start with the best AVR you can afford, make sure it has preouts, and get on the path...upgrade as you go.

    I don't think anyone here will say that this hobby is 'one and done'.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
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    They are fun, they can make some music really come alive. But not something I could use all the time.

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  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
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    @DonnerUndBlitzen , @tonyb sums it up nicely. From your reading on the forums I am sure you have heard that AVR amps often don't really have the power for a good system regardless of the listed power capabilities. This is where preamp outs are nice, and will let you use your current amp. As I mentioned the AVR will do fine to power the rest. Preamp outs will let you grow the system if, and as you desire.

    I started with a 2CH preamp and lower watt amp, and have slowly grown my system. I got a surround preamp for a decent price and used a boom box with detachable speakers as surrounds to start. I finally acquired better surrounds and a decent used AVR that had preamp out. Then I started upgrading amps and speakers. The surround equipment was not a good as my first preamp, but remotes, and muting is REALLY nice, and I could always run the surround through my preamp as desired. Finally I ran across too good to pass up deal on a Parasound preamp with HT pass through plus a Parasound amp. Now I have good HT, and really nice 2Ch set up.

    It was an easy way to grow the system and a fun journey. Some would say welcome to the rabbit hole. :p
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    KennethSwauger wrote: »
    Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!

    It was a pleasure doing business with you too...you guys made it smooth and easy. Enjoying them extremely and get to tell a cool story :)
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
    edited February 2017
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    DonnerUndBlitzen wrote: »
    I think the recent comments fall under the category of mid-fi versus audiophile level equipment. I cannot afford a $20,000 to $30,000 system. Such a system would be a ridiculous overkill for my small living room. I am not trying to beat a MacIntosh Labs system.

    I'm not against audiophile equipment. If you have the budget and the listening room available for a $40,000 or more home audio system(s), God bless you! I hope your system gives you daily enjoyment and it lightens up your life load. Many people who can afford such systems fail to take time each day to enjoy themselves and smell the roses. I hope your system (mid-fi or high end audiophile) makes your heart merry and puts a smile on your face.

    I can afford mass market mid-fi consumer products. These are not necessarily bad products! Because Polk is a top seller in the US, they have what economists call "The economy of scale." This pushes their costs down and lets them build and sell better speakers for less money. Yamaha does the same with receivers. Yamaha is good at building good stuff that I can afford. So is Polk. This formula works for me! Polk makes great speakers that are a good value both in cost and performance. They do not make $10,000 to $20,000 per pair bookshelf speakers or towers. Thank God there are companies that strive to make decent sounding gear that have mass appeal and affordability.


    I would just do what you're comfortable with.

    This hobby is a personal journey. You don't race with nobody.

    I think buy your Polk, get your Yamaha, get acclimated and then work your way up if you want to. If you don't, it's still a win win.

    FWIW, my first system was a pair of Yamaha floorstanders from best buy that was open box. And I had a cheapo Yamaha receiver.

    Would I have been better off if I went ahead and bought separates from the getgo? I don't think so, I would not have been able to learn on my own.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    Do you have specific questions, or just still getting ideas and kicking the tires

    The basics is understanding what settings like speakers>> small or large, subwoofer>>>yes or no, pure direct mode, etc
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
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    I've had separates before but I still like my SC-09TX. Best receiver I've ever had or heard.

    I don't listen to music in anything other than direct stereo but for video the various soundstages are awesome.

    I was just watching a Robin Trower DVD over the weekend and it sounded really good in 10.2 theater mode. Almost like sitting in the front row.
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