Stereo vs. AVR Digital Sound field Programs (DSP)

I’ve been researching the Yamaha Aventage 1060. It offers “pure direct” regular 2 channel unprocessed stereo as well as 5.1 and 7.1 DSP (Digital Sound field Program) processed sound. There are various DSP programs. Some imitate the sound of a concert hall in Vienna, or Jazz clubs, or the Roxy Theater.

I’m curious if there are any classical music lovers that have heard these Yamaha digital simulations or DSPs by other brands and how they actually compare to a concert hall and if they actually work in one’s living room or home theater room.

Recreating a classical music hall and its acoustic signature in one’s listening room has me a bit intrigued. What kind of experiences have you had with your AVRs and their various music/movie/ and sports DSP programs? Having 15 or more DSP programs available could be a real fun and enjoyable feature, especially if they work as advertised.
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Comments

  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    I'm not into classical, but the Yamaha DSP modes are fun to toy around with. 9.2 channels, and it gets pretty interesting.
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    They all just add artificial reverb, I've never listened to any of them for more than 10 seconds. Not a fan.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Not familiar with the Yamaha DSP, but when I had speakers, (prior to my Dyn C4's) in my main living area (14' ceilings) I had used the DSP and augmented the music to better fill the room using JRiver. JRiver has the same type of settings...yes was fun to experiment with
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    Nightfall wrote: »
    They all just add artificial reverb, I've never listened to any of them for more than 10 seconds. Not a fan.

    Afraid i must agree. Over the years Yamaha has been better than the competition at DSP. I've spent more time with the jazz club setting than any of the others but agree its more of a gimmick than anything. Some are just extremely echoing.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    Nightfall wrote: »
    They all just add artificial reverb, I've never listened to any of them for more than 10 seconds. Not a fan.
    Well, that's kind of what I meant by toy around... I might make it through one song. :D It's mostly novelty, but some modes are interesting. However, it's been said that I have the attention span of a gnat...
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    I run my sports in 4-channel, gives me that stadium feel
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    I like sports in 5.1. You get the announcers right where they should be in the center channel, and everything else is just ambient noise.
  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
    Sorry, just have to clarify...DSP is "Digital Signal Processing"
    Not "Digital Sound field Programs".

    In regards to AVRs, everything has DSP applied in some form or another. Whether it is adding false reverb or delays in the case of the various sound fields you select (note the correct usage here) or the room correction for the "theater" portion of it.
    Even stereo being played from an AVR is a form of DSP as the device's primary function is multi channel audio processing.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    AVR's are not my choice for stereo listening., period. My system suffered for more than 10 years when I thought a top end AVR could be the best of all worlds. My advice, ditch the receiver and get a two channel integrated of good quality. Your ears will thank you.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Those digital sound fields have been around for like forever, and every HT receiver has them. I've never used them for reasons already stated.....sound too funky. Personally I don't know why they keep that option with todays receivers, seems to be the least used.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    Yamaha has always been very good st these, and I like them for movies, just broadens the sound field a bit, makes it more immersive.

    Don't like with music. Again, as far as AVRs go, Yamaha has one of the better pure direct modes. When I have had relatively full range speakers, that is all I use for music.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
    I have an older Yamaha, but no mic to do a set up. I manually set it up so IMO most 5.1 sources sound pretty good. I am not a fan of the artificial modes that came with this receiver. Maybe I need to work with the settings for each mode more, I tried a little, but I didn't dig to deep. I also have a older Sony, and I like those artificial modes more. I thought they did a better job. That said I really on used a few of them on occasion and listen(ed) mostly in straight 5.1.

    One of the stadium modes worked well, added a fun factor, and IMO gave a better effect if you were out of the sweet spot, so it was good for groups. It also did well with some old 2Ch, and 2Ch pro-logic sources. Mostly concert VHS or CD's. It often gave it a better stadium or concert hall sound, but it was source dependent. If the source was 5.1, it didn't seam to work as well.

    The was a church hall setting that I rarely used, that IMO was pretty amazing, but it too often something would sound over processed which killed the experience. Again it is really source dependent. They are fun to play with, but IMO mostly for 2CH sources, or maybe a bad 5.1 mix.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    The best way I can describe vast majority of DSP modes is that they sound like your listening in a public restroom. Some echo a little, like a fast food place, some echo more, like a stadium. That's when viewing movies.

    With music it actually sounds worse.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    DSP is digital effects designed to "enhance" the movie experience. They really have no place in a serious 2 channel stereo rig, ever.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Stereo and DSP...two very different sound reproduction methods and each have their own merits depending on the use...but in my opinion are not interchangeable..
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited February 2017
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
    edited February 2017
    The pure direct modes on most upper end AVR's do quite well. Marantz and Yamaha Aventage AVR's have been recommend here. For a "decent mid-fi stereo experience" either should do well. The Pure Direct mode will not be as good as a dedicated higher end preamp/amp combo. 2Ch improvement will be gained if you have a separate amp and use the AVR as a preamp for 2Ch and the rest of the AVR to power your surround speakers.

    What is your final goal?
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    edited February 2017
    ......
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    I think suck is a bit exaggerated, in my opinion. I understand if you don't agree.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    Not as good, to be sure.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    Not as good as... This just a nice way of saying what I said.... Sucks.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Not as good as... This just a nice way of saying what I said.... Sucks.

    In that case...my Dynaudio C4's are better than 1.2TL's that means your speakers suck :p
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    I am inclined to agree sir.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

  • That's kind of harsh. I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's Shangri-La on my 2 channel system which includes a Yamaha Aventage receiver. It sounds quite nice I would say. Far from sucking. Could it sound better with different gear? Sure. But you could do a lot worse, too.
    McIntosh MA252 Integrated Amp, LUMIN D2 Network Music Player, Yamaha Aventage RX-A840 receiver, Emotiva XPA Gen3 2 channel amp, Polk LSiM 703 speakers. Oppo UDP-203 Blu-Ray player, Polk LSiM 705 speakers. Polk Signature S20 speakers.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    mark090852 wrote: »

    That's kind of harsh. I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's Shangri-La on my 2 channel system which includes a Yamaha Aventage receiver. It sounds quite nice I would say. Far from sucking. Could it sound better with different gear? Sure. But you could do a lot worse, too.

    Pay know mind, John's just being facetious and hormonal, he's pregnant
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • befuddle
    befuddle Posts: 126
    edited February 2017
    I just assumed he's constipated
    But seriously i'd like to hear Yamaha's DSP'S programs in the environment they were designed to hear if they were engineered to actually posses any worthwhile effect,As with 40 plus programs and only a very few that seem to be audibly usable it seems counterproductive to even keep adding them as a marketing gimmick to mimic the reverberations of the actual venue when by this point the public finds no practicality in them.IMO the hall effect sounds better on my pioneer than on the hall venue my Yamaha's mimicking
    Post edited by befuddle on