Monitor 7b vs 5b max spl?
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I can understand your point if what you are attempting to achieve is to make a vintage piece of furniture/stereo equipment snd better than it did new.while still retaining its original look.And i can understand trying to do it on the cheap with spks you already have,But imo given the size of the original spks opening shown, wouldn't it be easier and perhaps more practical to use smaller bookshelf spks,This way they could mounted in a angled upwards position towards the listener and toed in somewhat to try to get some sense of imaging.
Perhaps the space between them may be enough to use a 6-8 inch sub between them and then the original grill could be used to conceal it all to retain the stock look,Or if more bass is wanted,get a bigger sub and place it outside the unit.
Of coarse the better snd results utilizing the same space would be achieved using a stereo stand and placing the spks on stands on either side so the snd is aimed closer to ear level,and the better spacing would improve the imaging.This would allow you the opportunity to make a project out of veneering the polks and using them latter for a more snd quality derived application.
Anyway good luck in your project and have fun in its construction! -
Befuddle, Good idea, I have enough room to fiddle with alignment within the space using the 5bs... I'm also thinking of building a baffle of some sort between the two speakers, basically extending or tieing the speakers baffles together. My thinking is it would prevent the sound waves from the passive radiators making it into the cabinet itself. I'm uncertain if it would be more or less beneficial to face the baffle with a piece of carpet or something to absorb/ dampen those LF waves or if it would be better unfaced.
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Dont touch the boxes, they are crumbly affairs. Face tweeters laterally angle the boxes upwards to your taste and run some screws from inside cabs thru the top plates( now sides) to permanently attach them to console. Make a screen frame for the console and call it a sleeper.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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If you don't care what it sounds like then drop a soundbar in the thing and call it a day.
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If you don't care what it sounds like then drop a soundbar in the thing and call it a day.
That would actually probably be a very reasonable fit-for-purpose "solution" and sound perfectly fine for the intended use. Good thought! -
I never said I didn't care what it sounds like... I realize a console is a compromise, but I don't think it is doomed to sound bad.
Magnavox, Telefunken and others made some fine founding consoles, JBL put together speaker consoles that were TOTL then and remain highly valued. So just because the speakers will be positioned oddly doesn't mean it's going to have unacceptable sound quality. -
Apples and cumquats my friend. If you compare a JBL Paragon which was specifically designed as a console speaker system and has the drivers, crossover and folded horns based around that design, is most definitely not a compromise but a purpose built system.
On the other hand, consoles like yours were build as compromise/aesthetic pieces.
While I won't subscribe to the terrible sound theory presented by other, I would postulate that there are better options for you to get the best out of your compromise situation.
Just my dos pesos."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
I get it, your trying to make use of a cabinet you like with the stuff you have on hand without spending a fortune. Though from your pic of the console, I see room on either side to put the speakers and I would have kept the 7's, parted out the 5's or saved for another project. The 7's will give you better sound at higher spl's imho.
You could always build out that bottom portion and return it to a console type with drivers and crossovers built in to that bottom portion....lots of work though, and money involved.
No other use for that cabinet in the lake house huh ? Seems to me in the same space that cabinet takes up, you can have a small stand for electronics and keep the 7's flanked on each side within that same space. If just getting music in there is the goal.
If your married to the cabinet though, and need a project to do, you can certainly go many ways with it. Good luck on your endeavor, post up some pics when your done.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
ZLTFUL, what are these better options?
The picture shows the cabinet in my dining room window... not it's final destination.
People do lots of stuff others see no value in... I applaud their effort, if not the finished product!
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I think I want that...
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Apples and cumquats my friend. If you compare a JBL Paragon which was specifically designed as a console speaker system and has the drivers, crossover and folded horns based around that design, is most definitely not a compromise but a purpose built system.
On the other hand, consoles like yours were build as compromise/aesthetic pieces.
While I won't subscribe to the terrible sound theory presented by other, I would postulate that there are better options for you to get the best out of your compromise situation.
Just my dos pesos.
I agree (FWIW).
In fact, the Paragon, despite being a paragon
of aesthetic beauty and design/construction, is reputed to be kind of mediocre sounding (I've never been in the presence of one, so I have no experience myself).
As to the massmarket hifi consoles -- even the best ones (at the consumer-grade level, that's pretty much Magnavox in the US) used OK drivers but provided mediocre sound in and of themselves (to my ear). I have a nice Maggotbox (ahem, I mean Magnavox) early 1960s console with a PP EL84 stereo amplifier. The amplifier itself sounds good (amazingly good, given its modest parts quality & 'value-engineered' design) -- but the on-board drivers in the console don't deliver anything like its full potential.
This said, there were "audiophile" console hifis in the 1950s and 1960s (Ampex and Fisher, e.g., in the US) that did use decent component loudspeakers -- but even those (IME/IMO) were somewhat inferior products (the Fisher loudspeakers, e.g., were pretty blah, and Ampex tended to use mediocre OEM drivers in their consumer hifi products, even the expensive ones) not up to the quality of the electronics.
So, yeah. What ZLTFUL said
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Keep on course Bcup. Re-purposing and hotrodding a console is cool in my book.
Whether an old set of Polks or an old rare Porsche, I cant leave anything original myself.....
https://youtu.be/vy0eWHuWmnk Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Well, heck, having invoked the Magnificent Maggotbox's name --
This is mine, a dump find. Used it for years in our basment in MA and it served well. The onboard tuner/preamp and record changer were bypassed, using a Pioneer PL-512D (with Grado FTE+) and a foundling DIY preamp (both dump finds, too).
The Magnavox power amp fed a pair of profoundly ugly (but very listenable) AR-3 loudspeakers (also dump finds -- there's a pattern developing).
EL84PPstereoconsole by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
The Magnavox console used a built in pair of open-baffle loudspeakers. Treble is provided by a pair of Jensen RP-109 compression drivers/horns (front firing, the cutouts are visible in the flash photo above); bass drivers are a pair of side-firing 12" OB woofers (I don't remember the OEM offhand; they could even be Magnavox-built). Crossovers are, not surprisingly, first order (NP electrolytics). The onboard loudspeakers are OK but not really "hifi".
These were not inexpensive consoles, either.
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If I'm not mistaken, Buttercup, part of your goal is to build a bit of a "sleeper" system.
Friends/neighbors/relatives come over and you put on some tunes and, to their amazement, your console puts out some out-of-class sound.
Nothing wrong with that.
Going back to the car analogy, it's kind of like having a Dodge Dart with a slant six 225 motor. One of the most underrated, tear-inducing, sleeper cars of the day.
Sure you had to do a little work on it and it was still a Dodge Dart, after all, but ...
.... when the Chevelle SS 396 pulled up next to your car at the stop light, proudly flying the "Hooker Header" and "Hurst Shifter" decals, and the light turned green, and your buddy planted his foot into the floorboard, and you get slammed back into the seat with a moon launch, then .... it was all good.
And sure, the Chevelle SS did edge your buddy's car out by the time you got to the stop light down in front of the Steak and Shake but it wasn't by much and, after all, it was a Dodge Dart with a slant six 225.
But still .... what great fun.
I do like the view of taking a slightly different route with your console. The soundbar suggestion isn't bad. I like the idea of putting in a pair of smaller bookshelf speakers like the Monitor 30's. You can get a set off of Ebay for about $60 or so, will fit into the console with no sweat, and they will sound nice. I used to say they were Polk's "sleeper" bookshelf; the low end wasn't there, to be sure, but they were VERY .... uh .... articulate. For their size, you could easily fit them into your console in a configuration that worked.
Sal Palooza -
All this talk of consoles brought to mind a jingle for Muntz TV's. Around here, anyone in my age range could instantly identify and finish the jingle if you merely get the words out, "There's something ...".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LefngUF9Lk Sal Palooza -
What? there is a 225 slant six still trying to catch up to me some 45 years later. Still like the analogy though.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
Sorry for the slight derail Buttercup, but I have to make an observation at Mr. Hardy....
Does anyone find it weird that a Professor of stature, spends most his time at dumps ? Just sayin'....because I can make a good comedy movie out of that. HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Eccentricity of genius?
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I'm enjoying everyone's comments!
After I get her together I'll post some pics and tell you how she sounds... Might sound like a a a s s s s s! We shall see! -
Sorry for the slight derail Buttercup, but I have to make an observation at Mr. Hardy....
Does anyone find it weird that a Professor of stature, spends most his time at dumps ? Just sayin'....because I can make a good comedy movie out of that.
Maybe you've never been to a New England small town dump.
In seriousness, the town dump really, truly is the political, social and cultural hub of a small (rural) New England town.
I'm still trying to get used to the lack of one in the town where we now live.
We have curbside pick up of trash and recycling -- can you believe that? I mean, we don't even have curbs -- or paved roads, for that matter.
Fortunately, our daughter & son-in-law's town has a pretty nice dump. I get visitation rights some weekends.
My son-in-law & I rarely fail to return with treasures (to our wives' chagrin in some cases).
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Bose acoustimass makes just what your looking for.
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Bose, the midrange performer. Figuratively and literally.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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hmmmm...
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/173636/monitor-10a-back-in-action#latest
Did anyone ever answer the SPL question the OP asked?
My SWAG would be that the bigger box and lower Fs of the Monitor 7 might (?!?!?) allow about 3 dB more output "all in" than the 5. Again, just a SWAG.
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We call our dump "downtown"
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SWAG?? Somewhat wild **** guess?
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You are correct, sir (or ma'am as the case may be). the "S" is also sometimes thought to stand for "semi-".
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Here's the finished console... finished for now anyway. I do plan a few changes going forward.
I started by restoring the stained, scarred cabinet and replacing the grill cloth. (I have more $ in the grill cloth than anything else)
I recapped the 5's and built the crossover to the specs for the Peerless tweets, but used the original tweeters. The x-over change Tamps the tweeter down a bit... it's an improvement, but not ideal. I'm looking for a set of Peerless to replace these with.
I then placed the raggity 5b's on small sorbethene blocks in the cabinet... they are not fastened in any way, except the sorbethene is sticky, so I can slide the cabinet around without disturbing them.
I modified the cabinet divider to accommodate a Pioneer SA-7800 amplifier. I also connected a small Polk subwoofer from cl.
The sound is loud and clear and totally unremarkable. It has great separation on some recordings and very little on most. The soundstage is non-existent!
The unit sounds really nice for low level background music.
I decided I really don't like the look or sound from the SA-7800, so I have since replaced it with a Lapai 100w chip amp in its place... the sound is much improved. Still nothing remarkable, but decidedly improved.
I have a Dynaco Pat-5 preamp that I believe will look appropriate in this console. When I find the time, I'll recap and upgrade the op amps and put it in place, with the Lapai hidden from view! Along with a couple of Peerless tweeters, I think I'll be very happy.
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I would have preferred to see the 5's standing upright. Crossed to a sub the difference in spl between the 5's and 7's is a moot point in my experience. Crossed at 80hz the 5jr+ and monitor 7's required the same level of adjustment to hit the 75db levels adjustment. (right down to the speaker in the more solid corner needing a 1/2 db less than the speaker in the inside corner)
I am not a fan of speakers on their sides if not designed to run in a sideways configuration. -
Okay, I'll stand the console on end!
