Best pair of FULL (extended bass) range speakers under $1000 or less.

pkquat

I'm curious on thoughts and opinions for a pair of full range, no sub required, speakers that still have good tight bass, and reach below 30Hz. They still need to have a great midrange and highs along with imagining. A 150W amp should do fine, and they should not need more than a 250W. Used is fine, provided crossover upgrade costs are considered. A midgrade "economy" crossover upgrade can be used.

For reference I have some SDA 1C's and RTA11's. IMO these are close to full range, and probably meet most definitions. The best I've heard so far were a pair of B&W's a few years ago, I think 800's, and they were well over $1K a pair. A long time ago I heard some 801's. They brought new meaning the 1812 overture, and just about everything.

heiney9

"Best" is a subjective term. The 1C's are good down to 20Hz (+/- 5dB).

I'd say the issue is more with the room interaction and then the gear and source material. Factor in room size and you have quite a few variables that aren't related to the speaker physically and associated specs.

SDA 1C's seems to check all the boxes you outline. But, maybe you are looking for a different presentation. I have 1C's and can assure you they hit low when the source material is present.

At $1K I assume you mean used as to get a new pair for $1K would be hard, very hard.

H9

heiney9

Tuning and treating the room you have now would do wonders. I make the assumption you haven't treated the room to get the max from the 1C's in the bass department.

pkquat

I am asking in general, and not looking to replace them. I'm more wondering what is out there without going to a 2.1 or 2.2 setup, unless the 2.2 is part of the complete speaker. They don't have to be Polks.

I've heard 1'Cs in a larger ~15 x ~25ft room with decent dampening. They sounded better there than my current location which does have issues, but I have heard other speakers that have more impact down deep. Its a general question for a room with minimal issues.

WLDock

Not long ago, I saw a set of Legacy Audio Signature III's for $900. Something like that (Large Older speakers) is what you are after given the budget. However, like DSkip said, a set of bookshelf speakers and a sub or two might do it. Imagine a set of the LSiM703's and a used 12"-15" sub like the HSU ULS, SVS SB models, etc.

heiney9

20Hz with a single 7" driver? That's impressive. Actually very impressive.

heiney9

I found this in a review. Not saying they aren't a great speaker. They get great reviews. I have nothing but respect for Joe D'Apollito.

Frequency response is stated by the
manufacture at (-3db) 34 Hz to 28 kHz.
The in room response on the
speakers was amazingly consistent from 20 kHz all
the way down to 40Hz. There was a slight drop out
between 125Hz and 80 Hz, and by slight I mean a 1-
dB drop off. It was not noticeable in the listening tests
but the measurements showed it. There was a 5-dB
drop off at 31Hz. After that it became rather steep
down to 20Hz.

stangman67

Those Usher's are a very interesting looking speaker. Wouldn;t mind giving them a shot at their relatively low price on the used market

heiney9

They seem to be really well liked and reviewed and they really took a hit on the used market. I don't know the relative age, but certainly are worth investigating regardless of whether they hit low enough for the op or not.

[Deleted User]

Do you listen to a lot of classical? Would it be better to have the bass completely under control to say 40 hz?

tonyb

Full range is technically 20 hz on the low side, you need some big speakers to move that air without a subwoofer. Plus your in room response is never going to be what the response is listed as in specs. Under 1000 bucks is hard to find even used. Older SDA's maybe...Carver Amazings. Around 15-1800 used Legacy Focus 20/20's should be on your radar for full range floor standers for not a lot of coin.

[Deleted User]

Well, the low E on a piano is 27 hz. what are you hearing below that?
Seems to me it would be aaa, sympathetic vibration of the speaker,
room, ect.

Just wondering what the OP is going for. As DSkip stated, you might
be better off w/ a speaker that has complete control of the frequency
down to say 40 hz and leave the rest to a subwoofer. (for say R&R)

Emlyn

What size is the room the SDA 1Cs are in now? If they sound better in a larger room it is possible they are overloading the current room with bass. Other speakers would likely have similar issues? I would suggest a pair of SRS 2.3TLs, but if bass loading is an issue those would be even more problematic.

I have had good luck with large monitor speakers like the LSiM703 and a smallish sealed subwoofer like the SVS SB2000 in a smaller listening space. I also like Spendor speakers for classical music, but again with a sealed subwoofer in the mix.

mrloren

My 2 cents,

I had a good listen on the S60 the other day, Receiver used was a low end Onkyo. They put out some nice deep bass and sounded fantastic without a sub.

halo

Energy Reference Connoisseur 70 speakers. They are rated to 26 Hz in room frequency response on the spec sheet. Having owned them, they do put out a lot of bass and the investment for a pair is very modest. They are a 3-way speaker design with a separate tweeter, separate midrange, & dual woofers.

I also want to direct you to the Von Schweikert VR2 floorstanding loudspeakers which have a tweeter, midbass/woofer, and woofer and a rear firing ambiance driver housed in a transmission line enclosure rated 25Hz to 25kHz from VSA. Truly amazing speakers & the low levels these speakers achieve were spectacular (I owned these as well). I don't see these on the used market often but they are very close to the price range given what I paid for a preowned pair in '06.

WTS

rednedtugent wrote: »

Well, the low E on a piano is 27 hz. what are you hearing below that?

I think you meant low A. (Typo?)

Pipe organs go down that low and lower, as well as some electronic music and Bosendorfer pianos. Plus there may be difference tones to reproduce.

gce

For my digital music I'm using the 703's with my SVS sub. Fills the room and sounds great.

pkquat

Thanks, I'm getting some good information. This thread was only for information, possibly invistigation, and very unlikely for buying. Pretend the room is perfect or you heard them do well in a less than perfect room. Full range speakers are ones that do not need a sub for most listening,. They were designed to do well for the full range at a decent listening level, eminating from the same location, and blend well with each other. I put the tight bass, and more audiophile sound requirements because there all plenty of "thumping" speakers out there with 15" woofers etc. Often for the price, the bass is muddy, can be boomy, and the rest of the range is a bit of a mess. They do well playing few note, thumping techno, all day, but fail with more complex music. Some models of Cerwin Vega's come to mind.

I'm just wondering what exists. Is there something remotely close too a poor mans B & W 800's or 801's? May be $1000 is too low.

I've been interested in transmission line speakers. I've heard good things when they are done well, but I have not personally heard any.

I haven't listened to Theils recently, and don't know their larger models. The ones I heard had great sound and imaging, but any similar sized polk beat them handily on the bottom end.

IMO the 1C's and RTA11's do very well for good qualiry sound for the price. Although I am noticing the RTA11's to break up some when pushed.

skrol

When i saw tbe title my first thought was RTA11TL. I have had no break up issue with mine and prefer the bass well over my LSi15 even with the DB840 upgrade.

Are you sure you don't have a problem with the RTA11? Air leak? Detached spyder?
Stan

daddyjt

I currently own infinity Kappa 9s, SDA SRS, Carver Amazings, Klipsch LaScalas, and some other smaller stuff. However, nothing comes close to the overall balance (and deep, effortless bass) of my latest acquisition - Legacy Focus 20/20 pair. Got mine for $1,500 in superb shape. If I were you, I'd give them a listen, and then save another $500...

tonyb

pkquat wrote: »

IMO the 1C's and RTA11's do very well for good qualiry sound for the price. Although I am noticing the RTA11's to break up some when pushed.

When a speaker starts to break up some when pushed, it's not always the speaker. Sometimes that's an indication that your upstream electronics and cabling are sub-par.

Daddyjt,

Have the same speakers and they do bass about as well as anything I've heard. Feed them well with good electronics and clean power and for the 1500 bucks they cost you, you'll be hard pressed to keep looking for more speakers. A good all around speaker for any genre of music with dynamics up the a$$.

[Deleted User]

my bad yes. That is why I was asking what kind of music the OP
listens to. He got some very good suggestions regardless.

WTS wrote: »

rednedtugent wrote: »

Well, the low E on a piano is 27 hz. what are you hearing below that?

I think you meant low A. (Typo?)

Pipe organs go down that low and lower, as well as some electronic music and Bosendorfer pianos. Plus there may be difference tones to reproduce.

pkquat

Thanks for all the info. I'll definitely put the legacy focus 20/20, and the legacy series on my radar, at least for a listen. Same with the Von Schweikert VR2, more out of curiosity though. I'm not sure if the VR-2 are the same ones I heard about having phenomenal bass, but only for moderate listening levels. I've been interested in hearing Ushers as well. I have a feeling they will be similar to my Newform Research R830's. They have a similar sized ported bass box with an 8" peerless woofer. The bass is suprisingly deep and very tight to keep up with the ribbon, although they later switched to 1 or 2 7" Scanpeak drivers for even faster response.

@skrol one of the spiders was detached, but I have fixed that for the most part. It was noticeable. I listened more to the good speaker to be sure. The crossover does need a rebuilding, but even so, I noticed a difference in the upper range when they are pushed vs a more moderate level. The MW are not bottoming either. RUSH Clockwork Angels, Track 4 is a good one, about 1 minute in. I think it is just asking too much of the MW. I noticed something similar but much less pronounced with some of the listings in the bass tracks thread, i.e. TELARC Time Warp, Star Tracks, Star Trek.
What are the damping upgrades for the RTA11?

@rednedtugent I listen to a WIDE range and do like to do some fine listening, but the majority is rock. Oddly years ago I heard some later model Klipsch that had amazing bass. I think they had 2 12" woofers. Organ music sounded amazing on them, that was about it. That and RAP. The bass was not tight at all.

zarrdoss

My NHT 3.3's go down to 23hz and I feel no need for an sub when used with my Bryston 4B ST. And that's coming from someone who is addicted to bass. Can be found for 1k used. Out of all the speakers I have owned SDA's included I like them the best, especially for good clean accurate bass.

WLDock

All of these are a little bit more....but all low end capable offerings.

Usher AUDIO CP-6371
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649249316-usher-audio/

Usher CP-7388
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649327465-usher-cp7388/

GR Research OB 7
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-gr-research-ob-7-plus-pair-of-speakers-for-sale-2017-01-07-speakers-02766-norton-ma

Legacy Audio Classic
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-legacy-audio-classic-floor-standing-speakers-2017-01-13-speakers-03063-nashua-nh

Tyler Acoustics Halo 1
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649300986-tyler-acoustics-halo-1-cherry-pair/

WLDock

Yes, it seems some talk of clarity loss with the additional mid. They all seem to make good low end. Would love to hear all of them side by side.....then the Dancer series to compare. Just nice speakers all around.

K_M

pkquat wrote: »

IMO the 1C's and RTA11's do very well for good qualiry sound for the price. Although I am noticing the RTA11's to break up some when pushed.

We own the RTa11's along with a few other Polk models from back then, and honestly the Rta11 while nice, does not even begin to compare to even an average subwoofer as far as bass deepness and ability to not be overloaded.

(2) 6.5" woofers are just never gonna equal a good 10" or 12" dedicated sub.

The Rta11 will go somewhat deep, but play something with a lot of loud deep bass and it runs out of excursion very easily.
Even our bigger SDA speakers while they do deep bass nicely, simply are not comparable to our decent subs.
Its like they become muddy, and overload far easier than a good sub.

Not knocking on them but, to do Deep and loud, you need Big size woofers and lots of excursion.

D2Lo

ahem, may I suggest:

pkquat

K_M wrote: »

pkquat wrote: »

IMO the 1C's and RTA11's do very well for good qualiry sound for the price. Although I am noticing the RTA11's to break up some when pushed.

Its like they become muddy, and overload far easier than a good sub.

Not knocking on them but, to do Deep and loud, you need Big size woofers and lots of excursion.

This confirms what I thought. The saying "There's no replacement for displacement" fits for speakers too. Finding good tight bass that doesn't lag the upper frequencies is tough, as is sub placement.

D2Lo wrote: »

ahem, may I suggest:

Which DT speakers are you referring to? The BP9020 only have an 8" sub. I haven't heard them, so I might be surprised. I have not been a fan of the BP sound in the past. At times they can have what I call that "Bose" room filling sound, that can help liven some recordings, but can also add artifacts.