Tidal Introduces MQA

andrew82

It's official, Tidal has begun offering MQA to its HiFi members. They have added 30,000 songs off the Warner Group label to their offerings. It's being delivered only through their desktop app at this point.

Haven't tried it out yet, but as an existing Tidal HiFi member, I'm pretty excited.

http://tidal.com/us/masters

adb3da

Would I need new hardware to accommodate this? If I run it from a desktop to USB dac will I see any benefit or does MQA require some kind of new fancy DAC? I have a Peachtree DAC iTx.

BlueFox

My understanding is your gear (DAC) must be MQA compatible. It is the chicken/egg syndrome.

adb3da

I have a Mac too.

BlueFox

This thread has more info.

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=11125&page=2&p=189735&viewfull=1#post189735

Nightfall

DSkip wrote: »

Pointless if you have a PC as there is no way around that horrible windows sound driver.

A USB DAC uses it's own driver, no?

Nightfall

BlueFox wrote: »

My understanding is your gear (DAC) must be MQA compatible. It is the chicken/egg syndrome.

I don't think so, but I'll have to do some more reading. Having a Tidal HiFi subscription myself this is pretty interesting. It's basically 96/24 streaming.

MQA can be wrapped up in traditional lossless music files such as FLAC, WAV or Apple Lossless formats.

Everybody here that listens to digital should sign up for and support this, the average music listener isn't going to care. For $20 a month you can play any artist/album/song you want, lossless and now high res in some cases. I'm sure they'll add more high res in the future. You can also download entire albums for offline listening on your iOS/Android device.

rooftop59

Nightfall wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

My understanding is your gear (DAC) must be MQA compatible. It is the chicken/egg syndrome.

I don't think so.

MQA can be wrapped up in traditional lossless music files such as FLAC, WAV or Apple Lossless formats.

Yea but the same article states that you still need an MQA decoder built in. Sounds like Dolby digital plus. It supposed to be able to go over toslink and be compatible with existing systems, but in my experience it does not...

Nightfall

rooftop59 wrote: »

Yea but the same article states that you still need an MQA decoder built in.

You're definitely right.

Some MQA Facts Or Things We Know About MQA Today
I have included Bob Stuart's comments from the fact check in italics.

The MQA "audio origami" process wraps files in a 24-bit FLAC container which can be read by non-MQA enabled DACs. When playing back high-res content on a non-MQA DAC, the file is presented to the DAC as either 24/44.1 or 24/48 depending on the original sample rate family. You cannot play back an MQA encoded 24/96 file as a 24/96 file on a non-MQA DAC.

The MQA "origami" process reduces the file size of high-res content down to the size of a 24/44.1 or 24/48 file if the original is higher sample-rate.
A high-resolution original is "limited to an effective resolution of less than 24 bits" when processed by MQA.

Every decoder manufacturer who employs MQA, either through an XMOS-based hardware solution or in software, needs a license from MQA.

The ideal MQA encode process, i.e. on the recording side, is to use an MQA-enabled Analog to Digital Converter (ADC) (licensing fees apply)

This gives us the minimum temporal blur from end to end (a facet of MQA not often debated in the comments).

The ideal MQA encode process involves a representative of the record label who has the authority to sign off on the MQA encode. This process involves listening. When using an MQA-enabled DAC, a blue light indicates it is playing a file which has either been approved in the studio by the artist/producer or has been verified by the copyright owner.

The MQA authentication ‘light’ indicates Provenance in the source for the file. The MQA display indicates that the unit is decoding and playing an MQA stream or file and denotes provenance that the sound is identical to that of the source material. MQA Studio indicates it is playing a file which has either been approved in the studio by the artist/producer or has been verified by the copyright owner.

When that MQA light lights up green, this indicates that the file has been MQA-encoded but it has not necessarily been listened to and signed off on as described above.

"The light color indicates provenance rather than quality or resolution."

DRM has been brought up as a concern regarding MQA. Here's Bob Stuart's answer, "MQA manages no rights, extends or embodies no rights, has no tracing or user information (unlike UITS). There is no management system."
The fact that an MQA-encoded high-res file cannot be played back in its native resolution by a non-MQA enabled DAC can be looked at as a form of control.

The fact that a high-resolution file can be heard in great quality without a decoder is less ‘controlling’ than the current status quo. Is it a form of control that:

An LP requires a turntable?
Was that true for shellac, cylinder, CD, Cassette, Minidisc,?
Is the fact that an iTunes download requires an AAC decoder a form of control?
FLAC/TruHD/DTS/Aura3D needs a decoder?
And what of DSD? If I want to hear this resolution I definitely need a new DAC.
If I buy a 352 or 192k download from HDTracks I can’t play it in my car, on my phone, etc. Is that control? Or is it just inconvenience? It’s certainly destructive to downsample in software players to hear it.
You can buy an MQA file and play it anywhere.

To get the full studio experience you need a decoder, but the decoder unwraps the file to exploit the capability of every platform. And each and all of those possibilities are preview able in the studio and approved, including the no-decoder case. This does allow the artist/mastering engineer to deliver better the sound they want you to hear.

Is that control, or is it avoiding ‘last-mile’ meddling?

Nightfall

Listening to Nina Simone sing "No Me Quitte Pas" is always special. I own the 24/96 version of I Put A Spell On You and the LP so I'm familiar with this record. Using the Meridian Prime, I first queued up the regular old 24/96 file, followed by the MQA-encoded version and when Ms. Simone sang out in MQA, she'd moved. Or, more precisely, Ms. Simone took up a more believable and solid place right of center as compared to her more diffuse 24/96 image that kinda sounded as if floated more centered between the speakers, still a bit right, but not as obviously so.

But that's not the only difference. The entire space of the recording opened up, unfolded?, into a more realistic-sounding space; more relaxed, more air, greater ease. Coupled with this improved spatial information, which I'd classify as RFO (Really **** Obvious), instruments took up a more solid position within this improved space and they sounded subtly ever that much sweeter.

Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-reviewed#hmsZBqru6x9uS3de.99

gudnoyez

https://www.meridian-audio.com/products/computer-audio/explorer2/

So this one should do the trick for PC users only $299 what you say Skip?

Nightfall

The Bluesound Node 2 supports MQA, Cirrus Logic DAC, Tidal, Spotify, 192/24 support, etc.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_813NODE2W/Bluesound-Node-2-White.html

I wonder how long it will take for Tidal to move MQA to other devices.

vcwatkins

The good news imo is that there's a pretty good selection of "masters" albums showing in Tidal. Over 200, half of which interest me. Old, new, rock, pop, jazz, classical. A few are surprising to me - albums from Anderson East and Calexico for example. Lots from international artists that I don't recognize.

In Roon, they're showing up as a second Tidal copy of the same album, one 16/44 and a second 24/48 with album art with slightly more contrast and/or more saturated color. But there's no "Master" tag anywhere or indicator that the Master copy is playing as there is in Tidal. I'm pretty sure there are more MQA albums showing up in Roon than those showing up in Tidal under the What's New - Masters group. I've been seeing these dupes often in Roon, but didn't realize it had to do with MQA because of the lack of tags. I'm hoping Roon v1.3 will bump the MQA decoding to 24/96 or more.

There seems to be some small improvement in musicality with the Master copy (as is) through Roon. Not sure if it's the slight resolution bump or MQA mastering or placebo effect. I'll get one of the kids to switch back and forth on me so I can blind test this. At any rate, Led Zeppelin I (Deluxe) sounds FANTASTIC!

Roon 1.3, due out soon, will also include integrated HQPlayer for DSD and DSP which should be fun to tinker with. Also, Sonos integration and multichannel playing. Here's Darko's sneak peak at Roon 1.3.

vcwatkins

Nightfall wrote: »

The Bluesound Node 2 supports MQA, Cirrus Logic DAC, Tidal, Spotify, 192/24 support, etc.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_813NODE2W/Bluesound-Node-2-White.html

I wonder how long it will take for Tidal to move MQA to other devices.

Yeah, you Bluesound guys should also be able to test MQA outside the PC environment. I'm interested to see what resolution will hit non-MQA DACs in this setup.

Mikey081057

I will check it on bluesound today...Need to figure out if BSOUND app allows access to the TIDAL masters area or will it need an update....

adb3da

FWIW my BluOS Controller application on the iMac displays the MQA logo when playing an MQA track. So it seems like the first gen Node is capable of playing MQA. Whether or not I am getting all the benefits is another story.

[Deleted User]

stop me where I go off tracks but isn't the whole point to this 32 bit?
Doesn't that start in the recording studio?

jeremymarcinko

I wonder when MQA will be supported on the ChromeCast Audio. I assume it will be supported at some point and would offer an inexpensive solution.

Mikey081057

Haven't been able to find a way to access the MQA Masters on the blueOS app...

adb3da

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Haven't been able to find a way to access the MQA Masters on the blueOS app...

Yeah, it took me a little while to figure it out too. Try this...

Go to the Tidal desktop app or website and login. On the left, find the section titled "What's New" and click that. Then scroll down to the Albums section. On the top of the Album header row there are categories. The last one is "Masters." Click that. Then find some albums you are interested and click them, select a few tracks you are interested in and click the star logo to add them to your favorites list.

Now, go back to BluOS app. Locate Tidal > Favorites > Songs and locate the newly added MQA tracks.

When the song plays, you should see the MQA logo in the bottom left of the album artwork display.

Mikey081057

Thanks for the tip @adb3da@yahoo.co you get a

Mikey081057

So there are more than 300 albums up there... works with Node2 not Node... for me to listen I have to ungroup my players and listen on the NODE2 only. Will give it a serious listen tonite but seems to work nicely so far...

adb3da

Mikey081057 wrote: »

So there are more than 300 albums up there... works with Node2 not Node... for me to listen I have to ungroup my players and listen on the NODE2 only. Will give it a serious listen tonite but seems to work nicely so far...

Where are you getting the info that it works on Node2 only? You may be right, but with my 1st gen Node I am getting the MQA logo with the little blue dot next to it on the BluOS controller.

Mikey081057

I may not be correct, but when I had my players grouped it wouldn't play.... I saw the little HD thingy but no audio. I will check with Bluesound support

Mikey081057

Maybe it's b/c I am using a fiber optic and not a coax cable...

Mikey081057

Actually it was that the silly fiber cable was not plugged all the way... Now I am getting MQA....

recoveryone

Hmmm, may have to check it out. I just got the normal stream this week.

Nightfall

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Actually it was that the silly fiber cable was not plugged all the way... Now I am getting MQA....

Are you going out the Node 2 with fiber cable to a different DAC and MQA is still working?

Mikey081057

Nightfall wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Actually it was that the silly fiber cable was not plugged all the way... Now I am getting MQA....

Are you going out the Node 2 with fiber cable to a different DAC and MQA is still working?

I am but haven't tried that yet.

coolsax

Have just bluesound node 1.. wonder if it will support MQA eventually.. if not, may be time to upgrade to the the node 2.

Mikey081057

It will and does.... Checked with bluesound and have it working.