setting up PB13 ultra and lsim705

gurot1

I most likely going to bite the bullet and get a PB13-Ultra. We all know how tiny a speaker it is 22.5”(H) 20.5”(W) 28”(D)30"with grill on. I was looking at some placement options on the front stage. I was looking at either in the right corner of the room or maybe if I move the right speaker to the right about a foot and the left speaker left by around a foot, I could put the sub in between the entertainment unit and one of the speakers. Alternatively, I could put the sub to the left of the left speaker if I leave speaker in current position. Currently there is 22.5" front the rear of the right speaker to the right wall, 62.5" in between the two speakers and 35.5" between the left speaker and the day bed on the left. Excuse the mess...daddy hasn't cleaned up and some boxes thrown on day bed. FYI I will be putting up panels at first reflection point on the right wall and left wall and one behind centre channel. That day bed is in the opening that opens up to the rest of the basement. How close to the side wall can the LSIM 705 be? Any other suggestions? Oh yes, the tv is on a swivel mount so that I can move it into the corner and have more daylight. Also, the table on the right wall isn't always there.

WLDock

Look at all the kid stuff... I remember those days well, LOL! Anyway, when you get the sub, get a long rca cable or wireless transmitter, and some floor sliders. Put the sub in the main seating position (on the couch!) and do the sub crawl at the possible locations. Then, put the sub on sliders and listen to it on the different locations. You will know what works after that. If you can try and not put the mains so close to the corner...I know it's not always possible. The distance between speakers does look a little narrow in relation to the seating distance to the speakers. The goal is a triangle..but not always possible.

gurot1

Would you believe we got rid of a lot of kids' things? How about an scalene triangle lol. I had to remember Pythagoras' theorem to calculate the size of the bass traps. No way to set up equilateral triangle and stay marrried!

txcoastal1

DSkip wrote: »

Get an isosceles at least! Scalene simply won't do!


This time next month I'll be teaching math again. Yay! I apologize for the thread derail lol. Walt has you covered fairly well.

He can try off corner loading like Dave does in the hotel room with the legacy at Lsaf

gurot1

Haha, scalene doesn't require any measuring lol. What is off corner loading?

WLDock

DSkip wrote: »

The result of three noncollinear points is always a triangle. I believe you meant the goal is an equilateral triangle, which is often the case but not always. Sorry... Math teacher.

I was not so good with math. Average at best. When I got to college I placed in a remedial 099 arithmetic class. Not a bad thing as I swear that class covered all the arithmetic I was ever taught in my life and then some. It actually was a nice refresher. I think I got a 3.00 in that class? Then, I had to take Pre Algebra twice. The second time around I had a 3.00 going into the final and studied my butt off and was prepaired for it. Then during the final I had my first ever case of complete brain fog/ mental block and started freaking out. I think I got a 2.00 on the final, and a 2.50 in the class. Pretty discouraging moment for me. I actually had my first even panic attack in college after taking an algebra quiz!!

Anyway, what Skip said...and equal triangle, LOL!

SCompRacer

You have lots of cubic feet there. Do the sub crawl thing WLDock suggested.

It isn't always best for subs to be placed between the speakers in a 2.1 system. IME that works best with speakers on a long wall not boxed by corners. Also do some corner bass traps. They reduce the intensity of reflections which cause cancellations. Bass traps on flat walls can help too.

Also remember bass frequencies have lengths. Due to room interactions placement is very important. Inches can mean hearing great bass at the listening position, or poor or even no bass, thus the sub crawl with sub at listening position.

Math became important for me when I was drag racing. With some scales and some procedural things, you can find the height of center of gravity in a race car and adjust the four link suspension point of lift and push.

hochpt21

So if I set up a sub perfect for the listening position, does that mean other people in the room may not be hearing great LF??

Paradoxex

It's possible. Setting up a sub for multiple listening positions using the crawl method is harder, and requires more trial, error, and eventually compromise.

gurot1

Multiple subs help with more even response from what I have read. Dual SB13'S would be nice lol. On the math topic...in had to revisit trig to figure out how angles of the triangle for my bass trap as I will to using 16inch insulation to make the superchunk bass traps in the back of the room. Rear wall around 2 feet from listening position. Null around 80 hz position currently, even with the current sub in the back of the room. Crossing fingers that I get around to cutting the insulation tonight and putting in the back of the room.

SCompRacer

hochpt21 wrote: »

So if I set up a sub perfect for the listening position, does that mean other people in the room may not be hearing great LF??

If you ever get down this way, you can get the three bears experience here. From behind listening position as you move towards speakers, you experience excess, just right and diminishing low bass. I stress that folks setting up two channel systems consult a music chart to see what the lowest frequencies they are going to play. No use chasing +- 3dB 20Hz response if you aren't going to play any organ or dubstep.

I know some folks say they like to do it by ear only, but I find better results doing room sweeps too. I find it easier to work with some visual graph backup. That includes experimenting with moving your speakers to get the midrange right. You can get free software or pay. I spent $300 for Dayton Audio OmniMic V2.

Many car audio places like to set up systems by ear only, most times with less than stellar results. In the end, you get what you accept.

mikeyb128

I have to say moving your couch even a half a foot forward or backward can have a huge impact on boomy bass or bass that's perfect (as you mentioned SComp).

SCompRacer

mikeyb128 wrote: »

I have to say moving your couch even a half a foot forward or backward can have a huge impact on boomy bass or bass that's perfect (as you mentioned SComp).

10-4! The investment in time is worth it!

mikeyb128

I had the same problem skip, perfect in the sweet spot, headache inducing on the right, and a major null on the left. Picked up a second sub and spent about 10 hours tweaking the subs, moving an inch here and there, even toeing them in at the same angle as the main speakers. The result is nice even bass across the whole seating area. I'm super happy with it, and blends so seamlessly with my mains, it's incredible, those little sb1000's throw out some serious bass! Deep, tight, and fast. They take some dedication on setup, but payoff is worth it.

SCompRacer

Before...subs outside of speakers, but Jasper still approved...



GIK Tri-Trap at right, also one in left rear corner of room. Two stacked at left front corner. Open to main level at right.



Current and best setup for me. Tried panels behind speakers but they caused a noticeable drop in midrange.

mikeyb128

Love the room! I go on the outsides in my home theater. There is no other place to put those behemoths. Room correction helps with this. The 2 channel system is 2 on the inside of the speakers as you have done.

gurot1

Nice to see those pics. Those PB13's don't leave a lot of room. I had a free twenty minutes. Ran some REW sweeps on my sb2000. Was going to make the bass traps, but figured I would get a quick baseline (not optimized for room placement or anything, just wanted some data). Null around 80 hz and 140 hz. I moved the spl meter about 6 or 8 inches and the 80 hz null moved to 91 hz. Once all the panels up and bass traps made, my main concern is the MLP. I am jealous that there is no kids stuff in your rooms!

gurot1

What kind of sliders have you guys used when positioning subs? These 150 pound monsters will need that or else my back will get even with me.
mikey128, how did you find the EQ in the ultras. I know I will have to use it when I finally end up getting the sub(s).

SCompRacer

gurot1 wrote: »

I am jealous that there is no kids stuff in your rooms!

Our daughter and niece we were legal guardians for are on their own in their 40's. Just the wife, myself and cat now. Love the kids, but also love the quiet and just our stuff here...lol

mikeyb128

@Gurot1 I use a Marantz 7702 with audyssey xt32 and does and excellent job, the subs are tight, but it's a huge room that opens up to more space. I used cardboard to slide them around, I also have a horse of a back lol!

gurot1

I was thinking of using cardboard as well. I kept the cardboard box from the tv. It has helped out many times: Unfortunately it will be too big this time around. Going to have to take a box from my son. He recently started using all the cardboard boxes from packaging and groceries to make stuff with (uses a roll of tape everyday! ). He loves making Star Wars spaceships and stuff. I finally started my bass traps.
Forgot how messy insulation is, especially when cutting into triangles. The piece on the bottom when cutting always seems to get mangles up a bit. This stuff really isnt made to be cut on a diagonal. Thank goodness for electric knife or else o would still be cutting! Hopefully put up the other side tommorrow and then make a nice black cover for it.

Joey_V

nbrowser wrote: »

mikeyb128 wrote: »

I've personally heard this system with a single sub (the one on the right) and it blew me right the bleep away with it's presentation. Absolutely a must hear if your in the area for sure!

mikeyb128 wrote: »

Love the room! I go on the outsides in my home theater. There is no other place to put those behemoths. Room correction helps with this. The 2 channel system is 2 on the inside of the speakers as you have done.

Wow

gurot1

Second SSC in place...all that safe n sound made the electric knife blade duller, thus not as clean cuts. Hopefully frame up tomorrow and then black material. PB13's are on their way. Hopefully here by weekend, thus need these traps in place. Not much option to put any upfront of the room WAF.

mikeyb128

PB's as in two? You will not regret this.

gurot1

That would be affirmative. I am thinking I might have bought one too many. Don't know if the house foundation will support it lol. Dont know where I will put the second one! I know one of my buddies is interested in it if I find too is one too many for my space.

gurot1

Bass traps up. Delivery coming tomorrow hopefully, but all tied up for the next few days.

gurot1

Delivery company messed up and for some reason scheduled me for tomorrow instead of today

gurot1

Look what was waiting for me when I got home. Need to figure out a way to move this big box into the house and down a flight of stairs.

SCompRacer

Kewl! We had purchased an inflatable tire two wheel dolly years ago when we moved. That's how I got my SVS home theatre sub from curb to lighted lower level family room.

gurot1

Two of us carried it, much easier. I forgot an old trick to help manoeuvre the box up so that you can reach under the box (my dad reminded me). Tilt one side of box up, put 2x4 under it, then tilt the other side up and put another block of wood under the other side. Now box is raised on the platform...thus you can easily get under the enormous box. Funny you mention a dolly. We used to have one, looked around for it, turns out we tossed it last winter. I must be getting old, gonna go to sleep before unboxing it.

mikeyb128

I slid mine on the carpet, and used a blanket under it on tile. I got it into the basement by putting my shoulder into it and letting in slide down the stairs.