Mid-Fi Power Amp Comparisons

jdjohn

I would interested to get opinions and sound characteristics on these mid-fi power amps for driving SDA-2Bs.

Adcom GFA-555
Carver M1.0t
Hafler DH-500
B&K EX-442

All are +200wpc and either natively common ground or easily altered (connect negative terminals). I have the Adcom 555 already and a Carver 1.0 in-transit. I have read that the Adcom is bright, and I can't disagree with that so far. I've read that the Carver might be warmer, but will find out soon enough. But I would love to get input from the group on all of these regarding dependability, sound, and overall performance.

Thanks in advance for any input (or corrections if I have mis-stated anything)!

MrBuhl

Welcome aboard jdjohn.

Having only heard the Adcom and a (different) B&K, I can offer that the B&K is well thought of around here generally. Build quality is very good and they tend toward the warmer side of things overall. I've driven 2a's with a ST1400II and it had no problem with them at all.

I wonder what you're trying to get at - they all have the power to drive 2b's and then some. Is there a sound characteristic you're looking for?

jdjohn

MrBuhl wrote: »

Welcome aboard jdjohn.

Having only heard the Adcom and a (different) B&K, I can offer that the B&K is well thought of around here generally. Build quality is very good and they tend toward the warmer side of things overall. I've driven 2a's with a ST1400II and it had no problem with them at all.

I wonder what you're trying to get at - they all have the power to drive 2b's and then some. Is there a sound characteristic you're looking for?

Hi MrBuhl, thanks for your reply and the welcome.

I'm just trying to get input on these options without buying all four amps Being heavy to ship and only available on the secondary market, auditioning and returning amps of this size and vintage is not practical. And if there are known issues with any of them, that would be helpful as well, although I suspect they are all good build quality.

Regarding sound characteristics, I guess 'neutral' is what I would like best of all since I listen to a variety of music in different formats. If I can get confirmation that Adcom is bright and Carver is warm, and then take that along with opinions on the others, it will help me narrow down a choice. For example, if that Hafler is bright, and the Adcom is bright, no need to bother with the Hafler since I already have the Adcom. I hope that makes sense. Of course if there were an overall majority consensus on any one of them, that would be very helpful as well.

MrBuhl

Makes total sense yes, though that's quite a luxury auditioning them all LOL!

I've not heard the Hafler (or any Hafler), hopefully someone who has will check in. I think you'll find the B&K warmish. And I think (as you seem to have already discovered) the Adcom can be considered bright generally. I haven't heard that particular Carver, but we have quite a few Carver fans as well here who can chime in. If I remember right @daddyjt might be the Carver experienced man? (apologies if I'm wrong there).

IMO neutral is a bit harder to come by. I have a McCormack that is just excellent, but pricey even used, and somewhat less common to find unfortunately. Thats as close as I have experience with for neutral personally.

jdjohn

MrBuhl wrote: »

Makes total sense yes, though that's quite a luxury auditioning them all LOL!

Oh no, let me clarify. I have purchased the Adcom and Carver already, but am trying to avoid purchasing all four, so just looking for opinions/input on the B&K and Hafler at this point. Of course any comparison of the latter two to the two former would help in my decision-making process. You have given me food for thought already regarding the B&K, which is helpful.

daddyjt

Make sure your 1.0t is the "Non-inverting" variety - The back panel should look like this:


And NOT like this, as this is the "inverting model, and is not a common ground design.

jdjohn

Thanks daddy, mine is the non-inverting kind. I had already researched that and knew what to look for, but good to have the confirmation. I also checked the negative terms for continuity to be sure about common ground.

I took the cover off the Carver 1.0 to see what I could see, and these caps in the pic look newish to me. Can anyone comment on that based on the pic? Do those look like stock, or replacements?

daddyjt

Those have definitely been replaced, but it was a while back when they were - Those "fat can" caps haven't been available for a few years now. I can't quite see the rating in your photo, so just make sure they are 6,800uf @ 110v. Replacement of those caps now requires a lay-down mount, and we parallel two 3,900uf @ 160v in place of the "fat can".

pglbook

jdjohn: Have you considered Parasound? I have a Parasound HCA 1500A driving my Polk SDA 2B TL speakers and it is a match made in heaven. Great synergy there!

jdjohn

pglbook: Yes I have, but they are a few bucks more. However, I am still on the lookout! Thanks for the tip!

dhart86

jdjohn.....just some random observations.
I have owned Carver TFM series amp many years ago. My recollection was that the carver was on the warm side of warm (lol) The B&K ST 1400II is like Mr. Buhl described, warmish! IMO It was less warm than the Carver, but warmer than Adcom.
Adcom to me was bright and a little leaner than the other two amps.

Of the 3 amps, I prefer the B&K's sonic signature. It is on the warm side of neutral with a more full / balanced presentation.

Mr. Buhl was right on in his comments as I agree with his assessment of the McCormack amps. I currently have the McCormack DNA 0.5.

It's the best SS amp that I have owned (of which are Parasound, Rotel, B&K, Adcom, and Carver)

Hope my ramblings help somewhat

dkfreebird

I couldn't agree more with the above statement.I just got back into 2 channel a couple of years ago and have used the carver 1.0,Tfm 55,adcom 555,Denon 2400 and Sunfire Signature.I still have the Parasound 1200ii but the McCormack 0.5 deluxe is the best I have heard so far.I have never heard the B&K so I can't speak for it.Put a tube preamp into the mix and you are set.

jdjohn

Here you guys go trying to spend my money with all this McCormack talk! Seriously, thanks very much for your input dhart and dkfreebird. BUT, I named this thread Mid-Fi for a reason: trying to compare mid-priced amps of the somewhat vintage variety. It's great that we are getting all these brands/models captured together in a thread.

Speaking of spending money, I did spend some more of it today. I bought a B&K EX-442, so now I will have 3 amps to audition Once I settle on just one or two of these amps, I know you guys will line up to buy the others, right?

I am running the Carver M1.0t right now, and I'm liking it.

When I ran the Adcom GFA-555 a few days ago, I remember my ears hurting a little as I listened to it. At first I thought it was just the volume, but even after turning it down a bit, my ears still hurt and felt fatigued. I need to give it another try before passing final judgment, but it *sounds* like others have experienced that same audiologic feeling of brightness.

jdjohn

daddyjt wrote: »

Those have definitely been replaced, but it was a while back when they were - Those "fat can" caps haven't been available for a few years now. I can't quite see the rating in your photo, so just make sure they are 6,800uf @ 110v. Replacement of those caps now requires a lay-down mount, and we parallel two 3,900uf @ 160v in place of the "fat can".

I took a closer look, and these are indeed 6800@110. Thanks for the info.

MrBuhl

jdjohn wrote: »

Here you guys go trying to spend my money with all this McCormack talk!

Oh - we excel at spending other peoples money here! That's for sure!

You have really the ideal, if expensive to start with, plan in place IMO, you'll actually get to audition the amps in your own system and decide which one your ears like the best. That's a luxury most people don't get - so well done I'd say! Will be interested to see what you decide on.

Mid-fi, like everything else is relative, there's many folks on here that think McCormack pricing is starter money LOL. I aspire to that level, but I don't see it happening unless I get lucky tonight!

dkfreebird

The only reason I threw McCormack out there is it seems like you have a couple of amps that could be used to fund one.I found mine for 600 and sold a couple of amps to get it.Just keep an eye out and you never know when that killer deal will pop up.

MrBuhl

^^ Agree - I stole mine for about $600 as well in fact ^^

tonyb

The McCormack amps the guys are talking about are vintage.....and at the roughly 600 bones they spent you cannot do better for that price.....period.

I've been a McCormack pusher for some time, and anyone who has taken the leap of faith hasn't regretted it. If you had to sell all 3 amps to get one, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Of the brands your looking at or have, the B&k to me is the solid winner. The McCormack is a few notches above that.

jdjohn

Good stuff, guys, thanks very much. I see that McCormack DNA 0.5 puts out 'only' 100wpc, which seems low for SDAs. But I'm guessing it's quality over quantity of wattage in this case.

dkfreebird

Mine is pushing my 2.3tl's with ease and they are fully modded.I like you thought it is only 100 watts and thought I was giving up something but boy was I wrong.I'm going to eventually go up the McCormack ladder when funds become available.

MrBuhl

Yes, that's the biggest 100wpc you're likely to hear at this price point. And It doubles at 4ohms - so 100wpc into 8ohms and 200wpc at 4ohms. My DNA-1 doubles again down to 2ohms, which is good because with the new Erse inductors Westmassguy tuned for me - my 1c's can dip that low. These McCormacks are absolute studs.

tonyb

jdjohn wrote: »

Good stuff, guys, thanks very much. I see that McCormack DNA 0.5 puts out 'only' 100wpc, which seems low for SDAs. But I'm guessing it's quality over quantity of wattage in this case.

Got that right my friend. Too many times we see people come to the forum and all they have is mega watts on the brain. While certain circumstances may dictate the need for big power, most really don't need it. Quality over quantity....rule to live by.

jdjohn

That concept really hit home with me when I purchased my SDAs from a Korean gentleman who was kind enough to let me into his home to hear them first. After hearing the SDAs, he also let me hear his big ESS speakers, which sounded very nice as well. I asked him how many watts were driving them, and he said 25watts. I thought I heard him wrong (he had a very strong accent), so I asked him to repeat, and yeah...it was 25. It was some type of tube amp, I believe.

dhart86

tonyb wrote: »

The McCormack amps the guys are talking about are vintage.....and at the roughly 600 bones they spent you cannot do better for that price.....period.

I've been a McCormack pusher for some time, and anyone who has taken the leap of faith hasn't regretted it. If you had to sell all 3 amps to get one, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Of the brands your looking at or have, the B&k to me is the solid winner. The McCormack is a few notches above that.

Could not agree more

and like Mr. Buhl and dkfreebird, I mentioned the McCormack because I got mine for $600+ and for a few $$$$ more than your mid-fi category, it will easily best all the amps you are considering.

If TonyB didn't elaborate on the McCormack amps in some of the threads I've read, I would have never known how much better a couple dollars more could sound over the
B&K, Parasound, Rotel, Carver and Adcom crowd

Just trying to share info and experience bro, as we have all benefited from the same around here.

Good luck and let us know what you discover

dhart86

My McCormack drives my "Westmassguy modded" SDA 1C's with no problem

dkfreebird

There's another thing in common with us three.Westmassguy mods.Erse Superq's inductors.If you get to that point and can't do them yourself he is a good one to go to.

MrBuhl

^^ He also did the ones I put in my 2b's David is a guy you can count on for sure! ^^

LOL funny though - we all have the McCormacks (Tony sold me on them too) and Westmassguy mods!

tonyb

Seems to me we need to get a McCormack in David's hands then.

Here's a DNA 1 Deluxe model that came up on the 'gon for 850.....a steal.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-mccormack-dna-1-deluxe-in-los-angeles-area-2015-12-30-amplifiers-90505-torrance-ca--2

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mccormack-power-drive-dna-1-power-amplifier-dna-1-deluxe-march-1995#CWgWzPHbuChe2D71.97

MrBuhl

^^ THAT is a steal! That's next on my very long list - the Deluxe are the next level of McCormack! ^^

Tho - something doesn't quite seem right with the pics on that one - the top paint appears bubbled underneath, as if it's been wet maybe? The Deluxe are the way to go though, the upgrades to a standard to get them there cost more than the amp itself ($1K)

tonyb

Who knows, could just be a crappy paint job and the heat creating the bubbled paint. That amp though retailed around 2400 when new. The other article I posted covers what the Deluxe model upgrades included....most of them anyway, and should be the same for any other deluxe label.

Basically, for 850 clams, your getting an amp that sound wise can compete with many costing thousands more. Re-paint the top, cost ya less than lunch at Mickey D's. Maybe the seller tried to re-paint it and did a crappy job.

slbenz

Having owned a couple of Carver M-1.0t amps, they are on the warm side. I would recommend having the MKII opt2 upgrade done to your amp. Will take it to a whole new level and more than double the output while making the amp sound more refined and life-like.