In 2010 the LEAF was $38,000 fully loaded and the battery was $20,000 of that. Nissan estimated that each KiloWatt of the Battery cost $850.
In 2015 Nissan announced that the replacement battery was now $5500. So in 5 years the price dropped almost 4X.
I know 4 people who have paid $1500 to $3900 for their replacement battery from Nissan.
Chevy announced that they buy the Bolt's battery for $145 per kW. That's almost 6X cheaper in 7 years compared to the LEAF battery.
Elon Musk has stated that by 2018 the price should fall below $100. There are other people that have stated that in the next 7 years the price should fall 2X faster than it did from 2010 to 2017.
So by 2024 the batteries may be $20 a kW. So my replacement battery will be $500. It'll be like replacing tires.
Nissan's CEO said 6 months ago that by 2020 he will have a 100 mile brand new EV that costs $8000. No incentives needed.
Most people are unaware about how many charging stations there really are just because they don't see them.
You need to download the PlugShare app. You will be surprised.
Elon Musk has stated that 100% of the battery can be be recycled. No parts will be disposed of.
Many jurisdictions are adding fines for parking in a Charging Spot wether or not you are an EV or an ICE.
My car runs on Electricity generated from 50% Coal and at 50% my car is 10X cleaner from Well to Wheels than Gasoline.
4 years ago my Electricity was 70% Coal. So my car has gotten cleaner without changing anything in my car.
The cleaner the source of the Electric the cleaner my car becomes.
Hydrogen will never work for cars. It may work for Semi's. Hydrogen is Dead technology for Cars. By 2024 it'll all be gone.
Big Oil is telling you lies. There is no waste from making batteries. The waste is evaporated water.
Some issues with going all electric globally, is the issue is the storage of the batteries once they reach end of life, and then the cost of a new battery. This issue currently exists anyway since lots of stuff uses lithium ion batteries, phones, etc, but not in the size and quantity that would show up should we move globally to all electric.
Additionally there is VERY LITTLE to ANY buildout of capacity for charging station outside a few locations. Until you have enough charging stations to exceed growing demand you will have problems.
You also have to worry about slowly losing capacity, so while you may get 75 miles to charge for the first year or two.... then you get 60, then less, then less.
Sal you've even posted about folks using the charging stations to park their EV's in for the day, not just to charge, which is another problem in large urban areas (where EV's are always mentioned due to the limited drive distances)
I am not a person whose in a cycle of replacing cars every couple years. When I buy a car, I intend to keep it 7-10 years if not longer, and so far I've kept my first two cars for over 10 years each, and my Murano will be the same before I consider replacing it.
With a EV, I'm doubtful you will be able to go that far without having to replace the battery once, and also have the slow loss of how much charge it will take.
And just like gas, there is ONLY so much of the materials needed to produce the batteries.
Until we use something more basic, like hydrogen from water, as our fuel source that is much more plentiful and easy to produce, we are just trading one fossil fuel for another.
PS that electricity your car runs on.... its normally generated by burning coal, or another fossil fuel at a plant. And even if you mention that they are converting those charging stations to run on solar... they still need a backup system of some sort if the sun isnt providing enough juice, or if the municipality wont allow them to install solar panels near the charging stations.
Additionally the waste generated in the creation of the batteries is just as toxic, if not more, than the waste generated in the creation and processing of crude oil. And then long term storage of depleted lithium ion batteries is still a topic of hot debate, as they are toxic as well.
My main speakers, Polk Audio 1.2TL's Signed by Matthew Polk
Actually, if the argument is coal vs. electricity and which type of car emits more emissions.....not many give a hoot. It's not going to change a thing.
If buying electric cars makes you feel better about yourself, rock on and enjoy it. Just don't ask others to help pay for it is all I'm sayin'.
legacy Focus 20/20
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
Kinda like the fluorescent light bulbs that you can't legally just throw in the trash because of the chemicals
Double edged BS
I live on the edge. I wait till the cop down the street can see me, then dump a box into the trash........
Arrest me copper!
Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
I am, you have NOOO IDEA . I jump on cracks, never look both ways before I cross the street, refuse to carpool, only mow my grass on ozone days, and never look before I leap.
Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One
you do not know Dan it is more like 20x then go reference it on the computer measure 20x again. it goes on and on... it will get cut in 12 days.
But I only have to cut it once
Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
It took him six days to tell me where to put the dedicated outlets behind the HT cabinet.
That doesn't surprise me Russ. Dan knew the dimensions of my DIY subs better than I did... and I was the one who built them... I'm being totally serious here!
you do not know Dan it is more like 20x then go reference it on the computer measure 20x again. it goes on and on... it will get cut in 12 days.
But I only have to cut it once
yes you do..... I never argued that in the least
It took him six days to tell me where to put the dedicated outlets behind the HT cabinet.
LMAO....takes him 7 to return a PM. Boy has to investigate the IP address, where you went to High school, who your friends are, police reports, and if you ever dated his sister.
legacy Focus 20/20
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
The amount of ignorance in this thread is a little surprising. I expect it from PFB, but some of the others spewing crap that they once saw/heard in the paid-for media is a little disappointing.
HT Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600
The amount of ignorance in this thread is a little surprising. I expect it from PFB, but some of the others spewing crap that they once saw/heard in the paid-for media is a little disappointing.
Such as?
|Front - Dynaudio Emit M20 |Center - N/A |Rear - Polk Monitor 4 |Sub - N/A | |AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 |Preamp - Dared MC-7P |Amp - B&K Reference 4420 | |Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 |Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H |Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini | |TV - LG 60" 4K |Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
Hey Sal, question for you. They say evs have x amount of miles per charge, is it also based on time/ hours. If I'm stuck on the highway for 2-3 hrs because of an accident I'm thinking I might not be able to make it home.
2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607(pre), Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Tributaries Optical, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Rotel RDV 1045 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII and Android MXQ Amlogic S805 Media player. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Rotel 1075, Polk Patio 25x4, MIT AVT3 ICs
Hey Sal, question for you. They say evs have x amount of miles per charge, is it also based on time/ hours. If I'm stuck on the highway for 2-3 hrs because of an accident I'm thinking I might not be able to make it home.
Especially in the winter when you need the heat going and windshield wipers....headlights on...and you left work with a 30% charge left for use.
legacy Focus 20/20
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
Hey Sal, question for you. They say evs have x amount of miles per charge, is it also based on time/ hours. If I'm stuck on the highway for 2-3 hrs because of an accident I'm thinking I might not be able to make it home.
Especially in the winter when you need the heat going and windshield wipers....headlights on...and you left work with a 30% charge left for use.
I never even thought about that. How does an electric car create heat? Creating heat with electricity takes a lot of energy, look at space heaters that plug into the wall. They pull hundreds and hundreds of watts.
|Front - Dynaudio Emit M20 |Center - N/A |Rear - Polk Monitor 4 |Sub - N/A | |AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 |Preamp - Dared MC-7P |Amp - B&K Reference 4420 | |Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 |Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H |Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini | |TV - LG 60" 4K |Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
I wasn't asking to be an a$$. I am very interested as to how they really hold up in the cold added with traffic and heat and lights and radio and heated seats (if they have them)
2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607(pre), Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Tributaries Optical, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Rotel RDV 1045 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII and Android MXQ Amlogic S805 Media player. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Rotel 1075, Polk Patio 25x4, MIT AVT3 ICs
Hey Sal, question for you. They say evs have x amount of miles per charge, is it also based on time/ hours. If I'm stuck on the highway for 2-3 hrs because of an accident I'm thinking I might not be able to make it home.
Especially in the winter when you need the heat going and windshield wipers....headlights on...and you left work with a 30% charge left for use.
I never even thought about that. How does an electric car create heat? Creating heat with electricity takes a lot of energy, look at space heaters that plug into the wall. They pull hundreds and hundreds of watts.
Not sure, maybe Sal can answer that. I do know on principle that they also generate electricity themselves to some degree, but the car has to be moving, least I thought so.
Last thing I want, speaking only for myself, is one more thing to think about at the end of the day. Who wants to have to plan your route around available charging stations.....daily ?
Stuff comes up. Say you have to leave work, run home and grab the dog for a vet appointment. Run the dog back home and quickly get your rear end back to work. Now when you go to leave work you have less available battery power than you had planned for.
Then what ? Look for the closest recharging station ? What if it's bad weather ? Traffic is horrible or when you get there it's out of order....surprise. Too many variables, too many different circumstances to account for at the end of the day when all you want is to go home and chill.
legacy Focus 20/20
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
Comments
In 2015 Nissan announced that the replacement battery was now $5500. So in 5 years the price dropped almost 4X.
I know 4 people who have paid $1500 to $3900 for their replacement battery from Nissan.
Chevy announced that they buy the Bolt's battery for $145 per kW. That's almost 6X cheaper in 7 years compared to the LEAF battery.
Elon Musk has stated that by 2018 the price should fall below $100. There are other people that have stated that in the next 7 years the price should fall 2X faster than it did from 2010 to 2017.
So by 2024 the batteries may be $20 a kW. So my replacement battery will be $500. It'll be like replacing tires.
Nissan's CEO said 6 months ago that by 2020 he will have a 100 mile brand new EV that costs $8000. No incentives needed.
Most people are unaware about how many charging stations there really are just because they don't see them.
You need to download the PlugShare app. You will be surprised.
Elon Musk has stated that 100% of the battery can be be recycled. No parts will be disposed of.
Many jurisdictions are adding fines for parking in a Charging Spot wether or not you are an EV or an ICE.
My car runs on Electricity generated from 50% Coal and at 50% my car is 10X cleaner from Well to Wheels than Gasoline.
4 years ago my Electricity was 70% Coal. So my car has gotten cleaner without changing anything in my car.
The cleaner the source of the Electric the cleaner my car becomes.
Hydrogen will never work for cars. It may work for Semi's. Hydrogen is Dead technology for Cars. By 2024 it'll all be gone.
Big Oil is telling you lies. There is no waste from making batteries. The waste is evaporated water.
Big Oil has brainwashed the public.
Lithium Ion Production is Clean:
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/6/1524012/-Someone-is-lying-about-electric-cars-on-the-internet
Here's some additional videos so that you can get the correct facts.
Who emits more Emissions? a #GAS Burning Car or an #ElectricCAR ? - Do you know the Answer?
Energy 101:Electric Vehicles - A Video from the U.S. Department of Energy
Electric Cars are Dirty! - The Truth about #COAL and #ElectricCars!!!
Electric Cars & Global Warming Emissions
Gasoline vs Electric—Who Wins on Lifetime Global Warming Emissions? We Found Out
http://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953
http://www.Lasareath.com/
Double edged BS
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
If buying electric cars makes you feel better about yourself, rock on and enjoy it. Just don't ask others to help pay for it is all I'm sayin'.
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
I live on the edge. I wait till the cop down the street can see me, then dump a box into the trash........
Arrest me copper!
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
I am, you have NOOO IDEA
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
you do not know Dan it is more like 20x then go reference it on the computer measure 20x again. it goes on and on... it will get cut in 12 days.
I beat a smart car yesterday. That's .5 of a win right? Makes my car look like a land boat.
| AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
| Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
| TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
In the words of my grandmother..."I fluffed" near a smart car the other day and this happened. I am ashamed and astonished at the same time!
Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
But I only have to cut it once
Lessons cost money, good ones cost LOTS - Tony Beets
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
My system makes me happy and changes too often for me to care to update a list..... you guys are good at spending my money!
yes you do..... I never argued that in the least
man if that sucker rolled over it would go for miles...
It took him six days to tell me where to put the dedicated outlets behind the HT cabinet.
That doesn't surprise me Russ. Dan knew the dimensions of my DIY subs better than I did... and I was the one who built them... I'm being totally serious here!
| AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
| Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
| TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
| AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
| Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
| TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
I love this Video. It's Hilarious
http://www.Lasareath.com/
http://www.Lasareath.com/
LMAO....takes him 7 to return a PM. Boy has to investigate the IP address, where you went to High school, who your friends are, police reports, and if you ever dated his sister.
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
too many funny parts to reference.
I saw one of these once when I was a kid. It was only parked, though. right side up. not exciting.
haaaaaaaaahahahahaaa! 3:05 - dropping in to chat with other Reliant Robin enthusiasts at a meet.
He had an off day didn't he lol
Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600
2 CH
Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
Such as?
| AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
| Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
| TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
Especially in the winter when you need the heat going and windshield wipers....headlights on...and you left work with a 30% charge left for use.
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC
I never even thought about that. How does an electric car create heat? Creating heat with electricity takes a lot of energy, look at space heaters that plug into the wall. They pull hundreds and hundreds of watts.
| AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 | Preamp - Dared MC-7P | Amp - B&K Reference 4420 |
| Turntable - Yamaha PX-3 | Cartridge - Dynavector DV-20X2H | Digital Source - AURALiC Aries Mini |
| TV - LG 60" 4K | Gaming - Xbox One - PS3 - New 3DS XL - Nvidia Shield TV |
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
All this pain is an illusion
Not sure, maybe Sal can answer that. I do know on principle that they also generate electricity themselves to some degree, but the car has to be moving, least I thought so.
Last thing I want, speaking only for myself, is one more thing to think about at the end of the day. Who wants to have to plan your route around available charging stations.....daily ?
Stuff comes up. Say you have to leave work, run home and grab the dog for a vet appointment. Run the dog back home and quickly get your rear end back to work. Now when you go to leave work you have less available battery power than you had planned for.
Then what ? Look for the closest recharging station ? What if it's bad weather ? Traffic is horrible or when you get there it's out of order....surprise. Too many variables, too many different circumstances to account for at the end of the day when all you want is to go home and chill.
Butler tdb 2250
Cary Xciter dac
Joule LA-100
Pioneer BDP 320
Sony 4k 55 850c
FX 500 surround
Acoustic zen Satori SC's
Pioneer elite vsx21
Sonos-Cullen mod.
Audio Metallurgy GA-0 digital
PS Audio Quintet
Analysis Plus crystal ovals
Acoustic zen Matrix 2's IC