ClarityCap Low series than MR vs other brands
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Aroundthesuond
Posts: 37
in review of tony gee, he says they are warm/dark.
I want to clarify that I am not always agree with tony
his review about SA and ESA is very negative...
SA
"Sound: The Clarity Cap range has an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain a bit in clarity and spatiality. I find the SA to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation but also a bit closed-in. Compared to the Clarity Cap PX definition and separation are better, the stereo-image is also little larger. I did find the top end to be slightly rolled-off, not that they lacked detailed but on some recordings I wanted a fraction more transparency - but all in all still very nice. On the downside the "S" and "T" in vocals can be a bit plasticy, this is probably due to the lack in transparany in the top octave, making the octaves below sound a little masked. Making a capacitor using about 90% Clarity Cap SA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme works very well, this tends to open up the top end just nicely without altering anything else.
ESA
"Sound: Similar in overall character to the Clarity Cap SA but with more clarity and therefore a fraction more spatial. Like the SA they could still do with a bit more transparency but with a small bypass capacitor this can be improved. The ESA also has a slightly warmish presentation and also benefits from making a total value using about 90% Clarity Cap ESA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme. This opens up the top end just nicely without altering anything else. Good overall qualities and an upgrade from the standard Clarity Cap SA."
I'm asking an opinion based on your experiences.
for example, someone has compared the Jantzen superir-z with claritycap SA or ESA
or with Mundorf Supreme normal
I want to clarify that I am not always agree with tony
his review about SA and ESA is very negative...
SA
"Sound: The Clarity Cap range has an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain a bit in clarity and spatiality. I find the SA to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation but also a bit closed-in. Compared to the Clarity Cap PX definition and separation are better, the stereo-image is also little larger. I did find the top end to be slightly rolled-off, not that they lacked detailed but on some recordings I wanted a fraction more transparency - but all in all still very nice. On the downside the "S" and "T" in vocals can be a bit plasticy, this is probably due to the lack in transparany in the top octave, making the octaves below sound a little masked. Making a capacitor using about 90% Clarity Cap SA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme works very well, this tends to open up the top end just nicely without altering anything else.
ESA
"Sound: Similar in overall character to the Clarity Cap SA but with more clarity and therefore a fraction more spatial. Like the SA they could still do with a bit more transparency but with a small bypass capacitor this can be improved. The ESA also has a slightly warmish presentation and also benefits from making a total value using about 90% Clarity Cap ESA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme. This opens up the top end just nicely without altering anything else. Good overall qualities and an upgrade from the standard Clarity Cap SA."
I'm asking an opinion based on your experiences.
for example, someone has compared the Jantzen superir-z with claritycap SA or ESA
or with Mundorf Supreme normal
Post edited by Aroundthesuond on
Comments
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I find this crazy....so many things come into play and to hear that from a cap... I believe in upgrading but cmon...
just enjoy the music...Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
I find this crazy....so many things come into play and to hear that from a cap... I believe in upgrading but cmon...
Tony Gee has been at it a very long time and is a well respected cap guru.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
so claritycap SA and ESA are average quality caps ?
anybody compared them ?
yes, tony is a very respected caps guru, but he is only one person, the taste maybe change...so would welcome other opinions -
I have not used the Clarity Cap SA's before in any equipment, so I cannot comment on them.
I have Clarity Cap ESA's in my Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3TL corssovers and think they are better than using Sonicap Gen 1 caps by a fair amount as far as tranparency and imaging go. I find the transparency to be very good, IMO. I do not find the top end rolled off by any means, IMO. I have not used Clarity Cap ESA's in any other component, so I cannot comment there.
I have Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil caps in my DAC in the output stage and love them. They have great imaging, tone and detail.
I have Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil caps in my BAT VK-200 amplifier and am sill letting them burn in with about 40 hours on them so far (I have a hell-of-a long ways to go to complete the burn in) and fnd them to be better than the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps overall so far. They are definately better than the original BAT caps that are oil filled that orignally came in the amp. The Silver/Gold?Oil caps have greater detail, transparency and sound smoother to me than the Clarity Cap ESA's and the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps.
This is not a complete comparison by any means, but hope it helps you in choosing caps for your needs. I would consider Clarity Cap ESA's to be above average quality caps. Definately not top-of the line by any means though. The Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps are definately better. They also cost much, much more too.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
If one defines average as better than some and not as good as others then yes, average.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have....
thank you very much for your review, it was very helpful to me.
I'm glad that you enjoyed staying with the ESA, probably I will test them too.
what do you mean when you write that the SGO are smoother than the S/O?
they have a more detail of the S/O but at the same time they are smoother ?
do you compared the ESA with the S/O directly ?, i'm very intrested. -
Tony Gee has been at it a very long time and is a well respected cap guru.
I'm sure he is...I'm just saying what equipment is he using, what kind of music is he testing it with, what is his listening space like...etc. and so on...
I would use that info to maybe narrow down the choices but its all about the ears of the beholder...Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
Aroundthesuond wrote: »thank you very much for your review, it was very helpful to me.
I'm glad that you enjoyed staying with the ESA, probably I will test them too.
what do you mean when you write that the SGO are smoother than the S/O?
they have a more detail of the S/O but at the same time they are smoother ?
do you compared the ESA with the S/O directly ?, i'm very intrested.
Absolutely, the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps are more detailed and yet sound smoother than the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps. I don't know how they do it honestly. The Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps have all the transparency and detail of the Silver/Oil caps (and probably a little more) and yet don't have any amount of sounding "sterile" at all. They sound smooth and warm and still have all the detail, clarity, and transparency. They are phenominal caps!
I have no direct comparisons between the Clarity Cap ESA's and Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps in the same circuit. The Clarity Cpa ESA's are in the Polk speakers and the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps are in the BAT VK-200. You can get a definate audio signature from both cap locations however because am used to the way my system sounds up to the point when I changed the caps in a component. They CC ESA's and the Mundorf S/G/O caps were changed out about 2.5 years apart. The S/O caps are in my DAC and were added about 2 years ago.
I hope this helps you out.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
thank you indeed.
if there are other opinions are welcome -
What do you want to modify? How much do you want to spend?
Personally for speakers I prefer Sonicap, but ESA caps are a good choice as well. If you've got deep pockets, Clarity MR or Duland are TOTL caps.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What ....
I'll use them in speakers
Why do you prefer the sonicap instead of ESA in loudspeakers ?
could you describe the differences between the two caps ?
should be interesting to compare claritycap MR and Duelund, like you say.
do you have some information about them ?, or do you compared them ? -
To me, the differences between the Sonicap Gen. 1 caps and the Clarity Cap ESA's are that the Sonicaps have a significantly warmer tone to them (although this may also have partly been due to using Mills resistors opposed to Duelund resistors in the circuit). I agree with Tony Gee about Clarity Cap ESA's that they are on the warm side of neutral, but are not as warm as Sonicaps. Sonicaps, IMO do not image as well, nor do they have the transparency, clarity or detail of the ESA's. I am not saying that Sonicaps have "sloppy" imaing, nor am I saying they have no transparency or detail. I am saying these audio aspects are lower and less evident in the Sonicaps than the Clarity Cap ESA's.
I prefer the ESA's in Polk Audio SDA speakers and have used both in them. I also prefer the Duelund Cast resistors over Mills resistors for the same reasons of the differences in imaging, detail, clarity and transparency. The Mills resistors definately sound warmer than the Duelund Cast resistors, but it costs you in transparency, detail, clarity and imaging (IMO).
I have not used Duelund capacitors or Clarity Cap MR's so I cannot comment there. Let's see what Jesse and others say about them. I know there are some on the forum that have Clarity Cap MR's in the SDA speakers.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Tony Gee about Clarity Cap ESA's that they are on the warm side of neutral....
here I would be interested to understand this factor: warm and natural is to say low definition and muddy bass?
this is the only question mark on the series Sa and ESA, and I would like to clarify
We hope that others respond regarding the Duelund MR and CC -
I have to agree with F1 and disagree with headrott. The ESAs are great caps, but the Sonicaps are more musical to my ears. I've not heard the MRs, so I can't comment on them. I have heard the Clarity PX, SA, and ESAs, and all have a certain quality that leads to listening fatigue, for me anyway. I've not heard the Duelund resistors, but I can recommend the Mills over Mundorf Mox.
I've done side by side comparisons with ESAs and Sonicaps in the same model speaker with the same exact upgrades, and the Sonicaps win hands down, for me. just my 2 cents.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
^^I would agree that the Sonicaps are "more musical" than ESA's (because they are warmer), but as I stated, you lose out on imaging, detail, clarity, and transparency if you go with Sonicaps. To me, ESA's are more balanced in being "musical", and yet have imaging, detail, clarity and transparency. I can also see that if the rest of your gear is bright that the ESA's (being more transparent and detailed) will show this in your amp,pre-amp, source(s), cables, etc. I wouldn;t consider the ESA's themselves to be overly bright or creating fatigue (IMO). They (ESA's) will allow more fatigue to be imparted on the listener from other gear in your system however over the Sonicaps since they are not as warm sounding, and because they are more transparent and detailed.
It comes down to what audio aspects you are looking for from your system. It also comes down to what the rest of your system sounds like.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
it seems OP is looking for a definitive answer like 2 + 2 = 4 Everyone is using different amps, TT's, etc...example, if you have Marantz equipment you are going to have a warmer tone to start with so maybe your speakers should be more neutral...and so on...
When everyone starts out by saying "I prefer..." you are going to get 50 different results... All of the suggestions will improve your speakers from stock... The rule of thumb seems to be the better caps in the highs and the lows is where you can save some green...Mills resistors are a typical way to go here and seem to give a great result...
plus after burn in you don't like it get your tools out and try something else...trial and errorMarantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
The ESA seem to take longer to settle down and break in compared to the sonic caps in my eyes.
Has anyone tried breaking both caps in for say 400 hours and then going a shoot out? Yes the ESA are a bit brighter out the gate however with more hours on them they settle down just a bit and lose that edge.Absolute corruption empowers absolutely.
Lg 55LW5600 TV
Onkyo PR-SC 5508
Legacy Audio Focus SE
Legacy Audio Silverscreen HD center
Polk F/X500i Rears
Parasound HCA-3500
Sunfire Grand Cinema
Behringer iNUKE NU6000DSP
Pair of CraigSUB SS-18.1 -
westmassguy wrote: »I've done side by side comparisons with ESAs and Sonicaps in the same model speaker with the same exact upgrades, and the Sonicaps win hands down, for me.
Could you explain better your judgment?
thank you -
The ESA seem to take longer to settle down and break in compared to the sonic caps in my eyes
hi phasewolf,
you've got to compare the break-in of Mundorf with that of claritycap?
would be an interesting factor to Know -
Both Mundorf and Clarity Cap ESA's take a while to "burn in", but the Mundorfs, in my experience, take a little longer. It took 500+? hours to "burn in" with the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps in my DAC.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Yeah, Mundorf's take a long time.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have not yet had a chance to use mundorf caps so I can't really say. But some caps are very difficult to break in. On some of the caps that take for forever to break in I have seen people use a computer to sweep aka a tone generator and a cheap amp to cook the cap for a week or so before installing them into the crossover. That way it takes less time to. Break them it. This is not something I have tried.Absolute corruption empowers absolutely.
Lg 55LW5600 TV
Onkyo PR-SC 5508
Legacy Audio Focus SE
Legacy Audio Silverscreen HD center
Polk F/X500i Rears
Parasound HCA-3500
Sunfire Grand Cinema
Behringer iNUKE NU6000DSP
Pair of CraigSUB SS-18.1 -
the break in is a fundamental factor, i'll open a thread on it later, here i think we are ot.
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My evaluation process is not overly complex. I play albums and specific tracks from those albums that I've been listening to for decades. Some I've listened to for 30-40 years on different media and different systems I've owned. The test I was referring to consisted of 2 pairs of Monitor 10Bs. My own pair with Sonicaps , Mills, and RDO-198s, and a customers with ESA, Mills and RDO-198s. Both had the same cabinet modifications, same driver model etc. The only difference was the caps. headrott and Phasewolf make excellent points about the rest of the equipment in the chain, and burn-in. My tests were based on freshly recapped crossovers. My 10s had probably 50 hours on them, and the other pair perhaps 10 hours. My equipment is not high-end, and some cringe at the fact I'm using a Carver PM-350 Pro amp to drive my 2ATLs. The simple fact is, I got it for an excellent price, and it's stable down to 2 ohms.Aroundthesuond wrote: »Could you explain better your judgment?
thank you
Stevie Nicks has a unique, raspy voice that I'm very familiar with. When she starts sounding like my ex-mother-in-law yelling at my ex-father-in-law after a few hours, I know these are not the caps for me.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
i said the same thing....I have Clarity PX caps in mine and they sound great and not even close to settled in yet...Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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hi BKphoto,
do you compared PX with other brands ?
what defferences you have found
thank you -
no my first upgrade...
my ears like them...Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
what are the capacitors you have updated ?
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Monitor 10b crossover Solen in the lows and Clarity PX in the highs
Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
Monitor 10b crossover Solen in the lows and Clarity PX in the highs Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
