Class D Amp for 2 channel with SDA's

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gimpod
gimpod Posts: 1,793
edited October 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
I know this is probably blasphemy, A lot of power for a lot less money. I'm kinda looking at these two

220W RMS Per Channel into 8 ohms, 440W RMS Per Channel into 4 Ohms.

Class D Audio SDS 440CS

or with balanced inputs and gain controls for $35 more

Class D Audio SDS 440C

You can also get the SDS 440C in a complete kit form for $100.00 less.

Class D Audio SDS 440C Kit

Most the reviews seem positive but I've also read that do to the fast switching nature of class d amps that they can get fatiguing after awhile.

Any one with experience / options (good or bad are welcome) or should I lay off the drugs and forget the whole Idea?
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited October 2013
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    The only way you are going to know for sure is with your own ears. So buy one, forget about everything you've read or heard from others, listen with an open mind and decide for yourself.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited October 2013
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    I love my wyred on everything I've used so far. They have a different sound from my tube amps but I enjoy them more with a lot less heat.
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2013
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    I'd spend the $35 more for balanced and gain controls without question, even if you don't need them you'll get it back in resale value. Seems like a nice amp i'd give it a shot, not going to know until you try it out for yourself.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Not my first suggestion for class D...
    A few members have had those amps cutout on heavy load, and I think they sound quality is lacking compared to other designs. ICEpower is a well used design in the HiFi world, and Hypex is a little more exotic, but starting to see more HiFi usage outside of the DIY community. Class D can be excellent if implemented well, and power supply is a big factor in that like a traditional amp.
    Jake
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
    edited October 2013
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    Met a guy at the Lone Star Audio Fest that runs the Hypex with his Focal Grande's during the summer and his big tube amps in the winter and has been pretty happy.

    Hypex ENCOR 400
    http://www.hypex.nl/technology/ncore.html

    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110782.0

    http://www.siliconray.com/re2507-nc-enclosure-for-2-channels-hypex-nc400.html
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • pumpkinman
    pumpkinman Posts: 9,520
    edited October 2013
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    I put together a ClassD kit a couple of years ago. Some tube guys were replacing their tube amps with ClassD. I bought a kit and made my own case. Just wasn't my thing. I passed it around to anyone who wanted to try it and only one guy thought it was OK but he went out and bought a Bryston. Guess he wasn't so impressed after all. LOL Finally put it up for sale and it sold in 4 days. A month later it was back up for SALE. He got caught up in all the hype. He finally settled on a Rogue tube amp.

    9z8z.jpg

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    Because I am The Pumpkinking


    A Kind Word Is An Easy Gift To Give
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2013
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    Just like Class A/B amps, not all class D amps sound the same.

    I would avoid the above mentioned amps for a couple of reasons. I'm unsure if they're common ground or not, also they can sound wildly different depending on the impedance of the speaker used. Wyred 4 Sound, Hypex and Bel Canto are much better examples of Class D, but are also non common ground.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Hypex are common ground, or at least mine is as the modules are grounded together, and I think the same can be done with the ICEpower modules? I also remember Fred mentioning that Hypex are common ground.
    Jake
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  • toucanet
    toucanet Posts: 580
    edited October 2013
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    Here is one amp for consideration:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?151709-Carver-TFM-55
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2013
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    Jake, the only models I'm familiar with from them are common ground, thanks for the correction.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2013
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    *aren't...it would be nice to have the ability to edit after a few minutes.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,000
    edited October 2013
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    cfrizz wrote: »
    The only way you are going to know for sure is with your own ears. So buy one, forget about everything you've read or heard from others, listen with an open mind and decide for yourself.

    Ditto with you here Cathy, while reading reviews both pro & consumer to give you an idea of how an item performs has it's merits, it's not until you have the gear set up in your system where you can make a valid & trustworthy decision. Read all you want but get your ears on it. Class D done right is an awesome performer.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Usually class-D amps are very good at subwoofers, but not all amps are created equal as well.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Sexy Hypex class-D with balanced power supply :D

    photo.JPG
    Jake
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    zingo wrote: »
    ... Hypex are common ground.
    Yes the UcD modules are common ground.Any ICE modules with which I am familiar are not common ground.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Do you know if the ICEpower modules can be strapped Fred in a custom amp?
    Jake
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    zingo wrote: »
    Do you know if the ICEpower modules can be strapped Fred in a custom amp?
    Not with any of the ASP series.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Interesting... So I would then presume that an amp like the W4S ST-1000 would not be compatible with SDAs.
    Jake
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    zingo wrote: »
    Interesting... So I would then presume that an amp like the W4S ST-1000 would not be compatible with SDAs.
    Correct IIRC it is based on the 1000ASP module.You would need to add an isolation transformer to isolate the negative output terminals from each other.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    When this thread started I float the common ground question to B&O, so we'll see what technical explanation they come back with.
    Jake
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    The reason being is that the negative output terminal is not tied to ground.It is the exact inverse of the signal at the positive terminal(same level,opposite phase ie. bridged) so strapping the negative terminals would effectivly be the same as shorting between the two positive terminals.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited October 2013
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    FTGV wrote: »
    so strapping the negative terminals would effectivly be the same as shorting between the two positive terminals.

    This shorting can be a bad thing sometimes, eh? ;)

    Back in 2006 my opinion of ICEPower changed to favorable when I heard Eight 1000 watt Acoustic Reality eAR ICEPower amps powering a pair of Magico Reference speakers.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    So it sounds like Hypex is still a better option for class-D SDAs... I think I need to get my hands on a Crown XLS2500 to test as it has good specs, and that technology (DriveCore) is also currently being used by Lexicon among other Harman brands. If that in-house designed with Ti, class-D chip set is being used in their high end consumer and professional lines, it must be decent; especially at 775wpc.
    Jake
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    SCompRacer wrote: »
    This shorting can be a bad thing sometimes, eh? ;)
    As Elmer Fudd would say "verwee verwee bwad".
    Back in 2006 my opinion of ICEPower changed to favorable when I heard Eight 1000 watt Acoustic Reality eAR ICEPower amps powering a pair of Magico Reference speakers.
    Nice little "budget" system.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    Below was the response from B&O, which matches what Fred posted above:

    "After discussing with my support engineer, the ASP series have Vo+ and Vo- as a speaker output. However, this Vo- is not a ground. Both Vo+ and Vo- are “hot”, which means they are connected to the balanced amplifier output. Therefore, Vo- outputs on two ASP modules cannot be strapped together.

    For your information, related description is shown in “Output Stage” section in page 19 (250ASP and 500ASP) or page 20 (1000ASP) of the datasheet available on the website."
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
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    ----
    Jake
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  • 4xoddic
    4xoddic Posts: 372
    edited October 2013
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    I've been scouring Google re:Class D amps & came across this on 'Gon:

    "Google search D-Sonic M2 600m and you will find near the top of the page a link to an excellent review on the Polk Audio Forum of the M2 600M's "
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited October 2013
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    From all your responses I think Hyperx for Class D would be the way to go. I'm looking into it but don't know if I can afford to build one. If I was to build one I would prefer a dual mono-block design or at least a dual power supply design.

    And then I would need to find or design a good pre-amp,

    Oh my god the hole just keeps getting deeper. Somebody anybody please throw me a rope. :sad:

    BTW: zingo Nice amp **** :smile:
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
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    gimpod wrote: »
    Somebody anybody please throw me a rope. :sad:
    Sorry all out a rope,lots of cement blocks though.
    I have used the Hypex modules with both dual mono and single beefy linear supplies,both with equally good results.I'm currently building a pair of mono's with switch mode supplies which should make for an interesting comparo.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited October 2013
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    gimpod wrote: »
    Oh my god the hole just keeps getting deeper. Somebody anybody please throw me a rope. :sad:/QUOTE]

    You're the one holding the shovel, stop digging and throw it away! ;)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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