This joint needs some more vintage hifi

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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    edited November 2017
    The 317, if memory serves, may have used the Peerless KO10DT much enamored of classic Polk Audio Monitor Series fans... at least some of the KLH loudspeakers in that line did. Those also, if memory serves, had green (or bluish-green?) foam surrounds on the woofers, no?

    memories -- at my age, I just make 'em up... and no one can corroborate nor deny most of 'em ;)

    My normal helper tweeters are a pair of B&C DE35s which do a very nice job of adding some sparkle to the JBL 2441s on the EMILAR EH500-2 horns.

    As far as electrostatic add-ons, the idea goes way back...

    sc68i44c4c6i.png

    vjm7p73sqr50.png

    source: www.radioshackcatalogs.com (1961)


    (and the R/S add-on ES tweeter was a JansZen OEM or near-"clone" :))


    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    Come to think of it, I have a pair of the R/S ES add-ons here :/
    I've never had the nerve to even plug them in.

    (fortunately, there's also a pair of ESL-57s here, too...)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 6,899
    OleBoot wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I find myself dinking around with "helper tweeters" again. Can't call 'em "supertweeters", 'cause they probably don't do much beyond 18kHz... but, still.

    37585603364_3d78468401_h.jpgDSC_9766 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    38242395276_c43fac6896_h.jpgDSC_9764 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    38242355396_12410e2487_h.jpgDSC_9771 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr


    There's a method to my madness, although it's beyond the scope of this thread.
    I am doing this for a friend, you see. Not for myself. Honest!

    :)

    37585602564_808cbbef13_h.jpgDSC_9773 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I've just started my 3rd glass of wine, so I thought I'd bore the socks off you with my story of augmented tweeters. Well, maybe augmented tweeters/upper midrange. Sometime in the early 80's in London, I was brushing my mullet and wondering how to improve a pair of super cheap Yank KLH 317 speakers that the British HiFI press had raved about saying the're built bad but sound good. Actually they did sound good - I was driving them with a Cambridge (Before they became Cambridge Audio) P40 amp, designed by Stan Curtis of Quad fame (Still got it here in the closet - needs 120v PS conversion). We were always into lower power integrateds back then, as we were with cars that went round corners but without V8s.

    Through the less mainstream press I became aware of a guy in Edgware (on the outskirts of London) called Alex Shackman that was making electrostatic panels that could be added to any speaker to replace tweeters. I went to see him, and like most inventors, he was absolutely bonkers and just kept going on about reducing sibilance. So I bought a pair of them anyway. Got them home, connected them, and these were my first real taste of magic. Old age obscures why i got rid of them or when, but although they were not superfi, I wonder why I did.

    Too much wine. Too many words....
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • pumpkinmanpumpkinman Posts: 5,861
    8vxkl6p73o2l.jpg
    680i61einwlx.jpg

    Polk SDA CRS
    Picked these up about a month ago. Replaced 1 frozen driver and 2 tweeters. Disconnected the dimensional tweeters. It was blade/blade and one was broken so I did the Speakon upgrade. They only cost $40 but I had to drive to Connecticut to pick them up.
    I'm in the process of building a decent set of stands.
    lmivdewpnb28.jpg


    Because I am The Pumpkinking


    A Kind Word Is An Easy Gift To Give
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,200
    Good deal.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    Peer pressure (finally) led me to (mostly) de-clip-lead the Frankenaltec XOs today :)

    37629795824_99cf84f9f0_h.jpgDSC_9782 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    38343492941_cf29aac157_h.jpgDSC_9779 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    Details if anyone's interested:
    http://www.hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/curse-you-o-youth-of-rouge.3093/
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 198
    edited November 2017
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Peer pressure (finally) led me to (mostly) de-clip-lead the Frankenaltec XOs today :)

    37629795824_99cf84f9f0_h.jpgDSC_9782 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    38343492941_cf29aac157_h.jpgDSC_9779 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    Details if anyone's interested:
    http://www.hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/curse-you-o-youth-of-rouge.3093/

    Is that "hockey puck" part the inductor? I assume all they had to do was lacquer a strip of brass and wrap it up. Looks a lot different from the standard wire wound ones (and probably more expensive to make).

    From a sonic perspective I am wondering if one design is better than the other.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    It sounds better to me than the 18 ga perfect wound one I had originally tried in this configuration. The Goertz copper foil inductors are expensive, but not scary expensive.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/goertz-14-awg
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 198
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    It sounds better to me than the 18 ga perfect wound one I had originally tried in this configuration. The Goertz copper foil inductors are expensive, but not scary expensive.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/goertz-14-awg

    Sorry, I was confused. I thought the inductor was an original part of your vintage speaker that you remounted for testing. I was thinking the inductor was the old school way of doing things that was lost to cheaper production methods.


    This thread gets confusing..........(or maybe it was a few beers on a Sunday night).
    But, Thanks, now I have something new to consider for my next rebuild

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    The original XOs for the Duplexes (at my house) are Doug Sax' MasteringLabs XOs. The Inductors in those are awesome...

    borrowed photo of ML XO guts from teh webs.

    l845a9gw62va.png

    ... and a photo of the outtards ;) of one of mine from way back when I was originally testing the 604Es after I got 'em.

    26003722301_5a135297d1_b.jpg604Etest2 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    Right now, I am running the woofer sections of the Duplexes topped by JBL 2441s loaded via EMILAR EH500-2 horns. The crossovers are first order at ca. 500 Hz. There's 'supertweeters' added on top of everything -- crossed first order at (nominally) 20 kHz.

    :)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 303
    Another trip to my Dad's, and I pulled some more gear out his stacks - mainly receivers/amps this time.

    Technics SA-300: FM is out, but other inputs work
    grtz1j5rklnr.jpg
    Tandberg TR 2030: nice Norwegian design, beautiful cabinet, but I'll need some DIN/RCA adapters; interesting output design - I don't see any sets of transistors or heatsinks inside
    mgo5vbdbm019.jpg
    Sansui AU-999: powerful integrated amp, but left channel is out; I'm interesting to hear what this one can do once working properly
    ijlhui0ngmdt.jpg
    Marantz 2235: as you can see, a lamp kit is in order; works and sounds great, though
    vlobpedqzw1a.jpg
    Mac 1700: this is the gem of the bunch; six tubes in the preamp stage, solid state output; I think the FM tuner needs tweaking of the reception, although it does work; I tried one of the phonostages tonight...sounded really good; cabinet has two little chunks out, but overall in good condition; faceplate needs a lot of cleaning/polishing, but really clean inside
    it8ibq3i3fve.jpg
    Also brought back these KLH Model Twenty speakers. I had to fashion an RCA speaker connector for the back of these speakers, but all good. They work! The surrounds may look bad in the pic, but they are rubber-coated fabric, not foam, and still intact. Listening to them now through the Mac 1700...very sweet sound.
    dq0ui3ithj90.jpg
    I think a small investment in new crossover caps will be worth it.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,517
    Nice, get a wood case for the Marantz 2235
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,796
    The AU-999 is a warm sounding amp. Go to audiokarma and look up
    the rebuilding and troubleshooting info. The au-999 improves greatly with a few changes on the preamp board. Good news, almost all the electronics are on removable
    circuit boards. Easiest amp to service I ever owned. It's not at the same level as the au-717, but with the modifications it gets much closer to the same sound.
    And that Mac 1700 is well worth a rebuild.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 777
    JBL C50 with custom 2397 horn and JBL L100

    ix6c60ng6bbm.jpg
    Living room:Maplenoll turntable, Clearaudio Champion II turntable, Sonic Euphoria pre, Lounge phono pre, Shanling CD-T1500 sacd, Auralic Atair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers
    Sun room: Roksan Radius 5 turntable, DIY Class A 6H30 linestage, DIY "ST70" amp, DIY 2A3 amp, Diva Classic Audio BlueSky 2A3, Antque Sound Labs Wave 8 mono blocks, Krell CDP, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Klipsch Cornwall III
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Panamax M5400-PM power, SST Ampzilla 2000 mono blocks, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    What driver on that horn, Mr. W?
    I've probably seen it before, but I don't recall.
    In recent months, I've become somewhat more interested in certain bits of JBL hardware.
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 777
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    What driver on that horn, Mr. W?
    I've probably seen it before, but I don't recall.
    In recent months, I've become somewhat more interested in certain bits of JBL hardware.

    Mid driver is a JBL LE85. Tweeter is a JBL 2405.

    Living room:Maplenoll turntable, Clearaudio Champion II turntable, Sonic Euphoria pre, Lounge phono pre, Shanling CD-T1500 sacd, Auralic Atair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers
    Sun room: Roksan Radius 5 turntable, DIY Class A 6H30 linestage, DIY "ST70" amp, DIY 2A3 amp, Diva Classic Audio BlueSky 2A3, Antque Sound Labs Wave 8 mono blocks, Krell CDP, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Klipsch Cornwall III
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Panamax M5400-PM power, SST Ampzilla 2000 mono blocks, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,763
    LOVE those vintage Ads.

    5 bucks down.
    6 bucks a month.

    If I only had a time machine.. B)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,358
    I am oft tempted to fill in an order blank in an old Allied catalog and send it in...

    ;)

    0s473wdlklli.png

    r8avioa1836t.png


    source: www.alliedcatalogs.com (1961)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 303
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    The AU-999 is a warm sounding amp. Go to audiokarma and look up the rebuilding and troubleshooting info. The au-999 improves greatly with a few changes on the preamp board. Good news, almost all the electronics are on removable circuit boards. Easiest amp to service I ever owned. It's not at the same level as the au-717, but with the modifications it gets much closer to the same sound.
    And that Mac 1700 is well worth a rebuild.
    I've been reading about the mods for the AU-999...will definitely be considering those as I do a recap. I got the other channel to work...was missing a fuse. The AU-999 has a fuse for each channel output, and one was missing, AND the fuse cap was the wrong type (wouldn't even screw in) :s I got a replacement fuse cap off eBay, new fuses from The Home Depot, and back in business! Sounds pretty good as-is, but looking forward to doing the upgrades.

    Yes, definitely going to get the Mac-1700 up-to-snuff. I'll have to farm that work out since I don't have all the proper equipment for the (quite involved) FM/MPX calibration. There's a guy down the road in Knoxville who specializes in vintage Mac gear - audio, not Apple :D
  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,633
    This one might be mine:

    3wjbxky8oe37.jpg
  • soundfreak1soundfreak1 Posts: 2,821
    There's one of those on CL in safety harbor fla. For 210.00. Just saying. No affiliation.
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,200
    This one might be mine:

    3wjbxky8oe37.jpg

    Got to see an 8000 series one of those today. It was massive!
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 5,141
    edited November 2017
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Back to P-Man's travels to Conn. This guy will travel almost an infinite amount of miles for a set of speakers or a piece of gear he covets. He's one dedicated dude who knows what he wants and goes gets it. Cudos to Bill.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,200
    Tony M wrote: »

    Yes! The owner has it running a pair of 12Bs and says he can't turn it up past 8 o'clock on the volume knob without disturbing the neighbors in the apartment. It's pretty and I want it, but dear God does it take up alot of room on the rack!
  • soundfreak1soundfreak1 Posts: 2,821
    Maybe I'm too tough but I won't deal with any e on the bay with less than a 100% rating.
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,671
    Maybe I'm too tough but I won't deal with any e on the bay with less than a 100% rating.

    Even that don't mean much anymore in the era of negative feedback removal.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,200
    People leave negative feedback even if everything is perfect, but their cooch is itchy that day.... Blows my mind the things that people will gripe about just because...
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