Tweeters for a KLH 6?

cnh

Hi,

I'm trying to find an "original" tweeter for an old KLH Model 6 speaker. I have a pair in the shop and one tweeter is blown.

Does anyone know, outside of ebay. Where I might track one down?

Also, what other models of early KLHs used the same tweeter as the Sixes (that would be good to know as it expands the possibilities)? Trying to restore an old set I bought a while back, and let's face it, I've always been a BIG fan of Henry Kloss!

Thanks!

cnh

mhardy6647

I am pretty darned sure that I have one in stock (although, admittedly, it may be from a KLH 17... I reckon it's close enough for government work).
Fancy a drive out to "MetroWest" this weekend? :-)
(or I can just throw it in the mail if you want it)

George Grand

17=6. Same tweeter. Keep your eyes open, those things are all over. Not more than a month ago I sold a guy pair of 6 and Large Advent for $20/both pair. Cabs on the 6 were atrocious but the drivers all worked. 6's and 17's are all over the place.

I think Model 30 used those, maybe Model 5 also.

cnh

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I am pretty darned sure that I have one in stock (although, admittedly, it may be from a KLH 17... I reckon it's close enough for government work).
Fancy a drive out to "MetroWest" this weekend? :-)
(or I can just throw it in the mail if you want it)

Thanks Mark, George.

And yes, I would be interested in your tweeter if you have a spare. Would be willing to offer you payment as well. Not sure when I would get down your way next, though. My son leaves in Boston on Beacon street so we do get down to that area every so often. Why don't you hold that for me for now. Let me speak to my repair guy next week and get back to you to see what's best:

If I have time to visit the Boston area, or if we should just consider shipping!

In any case. Thank you, sir!

And George is right--evidently the KLH 5, 6, 12, 17 and 23 all used the same tweeter more or less according to a guy on AK.

I'll PM you in a few days!

cnh

mhardy6647

I thought you were somewhere around these parts; sorry! :-)
(Happy to mail it, though, depending on your precise location in space-time - further details as events warrant)
Feel free to PM me here or... elsewhere.


George? right?!? Astounding...

Kidding... KIDDING! Please don't break any mission critical body parts of mine, Mr. Grand...

George Grand

The Model 30 is a definite Model 6 tweeter. The Model 30 was the exact same speaker as the 6, but with only half the cabinet depth of the 6, and connection was made by RCA plug not separate terminals. You could actually put it on a bookshelf. I have a theory about those.

mhardy6647

George Grand wrote: »

... I have a theory about those.

... and...?

cnh

I'd be interested in the theory as well. And, again, George is correct! We had revision on which models use the 6's tweeter:

6, 17, 20, 30 and maybe the 33? With the 5, 12, and 23 sharing another?

In any case the 17 will do! Thanks again to mhardy!

While we're on this. What exactly is the difference between the 17s and 6s other than the cabinet size. The 6s are larger (I know since I also have a pair of 17s I received from another member--a big Thank you to Jstas). I use those with a vintage receiver and a Technics TT as my go to vinyl system.

Do the 6s reach lower than the 17s due to the cabinet size. And is that all?


cnh

George Grand

That's about it. 6 goes a little deeper. Kloss said that the Model 6 was "The first two-way I designed that got everything right."

The Model 30 as I said was the same loudspeaker as the 6 with only 1/2 the cabinet depth. The Model 6 (MAYBE the 17) was KLH's bread and butter speaker, like the AR-4a was to AR. They sold scads of them. Some KLH receivers came with the Hafler Dyna-Quad circuit on board. Unlike a few other manufacturers that incorporated the circuit on their receivers as well (Sherwood, Realistic, and others), KLH provided outputs for the rear or "ambience" speakers by way of RCA jacks. I know that the 33wpc Model 52 receiver was like that, cause I had one not TOO long ago. The Model 30 speaker allowed you to have the exact same loudspeaker for the "ambience" channels high on the sidewall (where the "rear" speakers were recommended to go) if you had the Model 6 up front. The speaker was considerably lighter in weight than the 6 and a modest bookshelf would support it.

I tried that receiver with a pair of 6 and those Model 30 in a very less than desirable listening environment, and it sounded pretty good.

Or maybe I'm completely half-**** and the Model 30 was a turntable/receiver package system of KLH that came with the Model 30 speaker.

Charles218

I just came across this thread and wanted to check and see if anyone has a spare rear metal plate for the KLH Model 6. This is the plate with the speaker connectors and level controls. I understand that there are two versions, one is recessed while the other is flush. Mine is the flush version.

gmjungbluth

cnh,

Did you find a tweeter for your 6? I'm actually in the same boat now - just recapped a pair of 6s (my first recap!!) and realized one of the tweeters is inoperable. If anyone has a spare I'd be happy to buy it.

At first I thought that perhaps I'd wired the crossover wrong, but when I touched the speaker wires from my receiver to the joins where I spliced the tweeter wires back into the speaker, I got sound through the woofer. So that saves a step.

Thanks in advance for any help,

G

rromeo923

George I have a pair of 17's that I would sell. A bit overkill to just get one tweeter but....

gmjungbluth

I'll have to come out and demo them! I've heard the 17s are really sweet too - would be a shame to break up a good pair just for one tweeter

rromeo923 wrote: »

George I have a pair of 17's that I would sell. A bit overkill to just get one tweeter but....

cnh

To answer your question. I did find a tweeter for the Sixes but we couldn't repair them properly, because they were the "early" Kloss versions where he overruled Vilchur and EPOXIED everything in sight and even things you couldn't see (all speakers and crossovers). We sold everything off for parts! A big waste, bust and financial sink hole for me! DON'T ever buy early KLH models that provide NO access to their internals. Always look for "screws" on the drivers!

I did, however, graciously accept a pair of KLH 17s from a fellow Polkie and all around Mensch. And they sound GREAT!

Good Luck. I'm a BIG fan of Henry's work!

cnh

mhardy6647

I have this, rescued from a dump-find KLH something-or-other. Certainly similar to the 6's tweeter but maybe not identical.
I had offered it to cnh a while back, but you've already seen his tale of woe. Contact me by PM if this is of potential interest, if you like.

cnh

And a big thank you to mhardy for that!

The funny part of this story is that the guy I bought these from, was a local store owner in my town and the "original" owner of the sixes which he was powering with Marantz separates. So he was pretty old. I didn't really get a chance to fully audition them and it turned out that this guy's (nice fellow, BTW) hearing was probably going because he couldn't tell that his speakers had NO HIGHS. Which I heard as soon as I hooked them up? Another lesson. Make sure you put everything through its paces before buying.

cnh

gmjungbluth

Yep. Same lesson learned here. I picked these up from an older gentleman who had them since new. They were already out in the garage when I came to look at them - no way to demo. They looked nice and unmolested so I took the plunge. I would have still bought them would I have known of the dead tweeter and numb capacitors, but not at the nice price I paid!

But now that I have so much work into them, I'm loathe to let go - I washed and rubbed the veneers with steel wool and applied restore a finish, and learned how to re-solder crossovers for these guys. From the limited demo I did yesterday before finding the dead tweeter, the new caps sound pretty good - bass is right there, and the one speaker was getting some really nice highs.

When I was putting them back together I noticed that I could see light through the surrounds on the woofers. From what I've read this seems to mean that I should consider re-doping them. However since the bass was just fine for my ears when I first demoed them, this may not be my highest priority. Has anyone re-doped the surrounds on a KLH speaker successfully? I did a quick Google search and there seem to be a number of different solutions out there but folks say there's a big risk to sound quality if you make the surrounds too stiff.

cnh wrote: »

And a big thank you to mhardy for that!

The funny part of this story is that the guy I bought these from, was a local store owner in my town and the "original" owner of the sixes which he was powering with Marantz separates. So he was pretty old. I didn't really get a chance to fully audition them and it turned out that this guy's (nice fellow, BTW) hearing was probably going because he couldn't tell that his speakers had NO HIGHS. Which I heard as soon as I hooked them up? Another lesson. Make sure you put everything through its paces before buying.

cnh

mhardy6647

My (dump find) KLH 6s seemed to have dysfunctional tweeters as found... but the problem was the crossover caps and not the tweeters.
Just thought that was worth mentioning (maybe it's already been said in this thread).

TNHNDYMAN

George- check out classicspeaker.com I think? They have a nice section on the early KLH's. I had a pair of six's that I sold to rromeo and now have a pair of minty 23's that probably need new caps but still sound quite nice with decent power behind them. Definately worth bringing back to life...

Also a nice offer on MrH's part

mhardy6647

The tweeter above is in working order and the DCR is 4.0 ohms. I am guessing it's from a KLH 17 but I don't know fo' sho'.
At any rate, it's available for postage to gmjungbluth if he wants it and he's in the continental US :-)

oh, and I actually (finally) reread your first post - and see that you did recap :-P sorry I missed that.

Charles218

Since this thread has come back to life, I wanted to mention again that I am still looking for a plate from the rear of a KLH 6. If anyone has a box that is trashed and has the flush mounted rear plate, I am very hungry to get one.

Charles

gmjungbluth

Super! Did you get my pm with address?

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The tweeter above is in working order and the DCR is 4.0 ohms. I am guessing it's from a KLH 17 but I don't know fo' sho'.
At any rate, it's available for postage to gmjungbluth if he wants it and he's in the continental US :-)

oh, and I actually (finally) reread your first post - and see that you did recap :-P sorry I missed that.

mhardy6647

I did - didn't have a chance to pack/mail the tweeter on Saturday - we'll get it on its way sometime this coming week; sorry!

gmjungbluth

Tweeter is in and sounds great - thank you! Check is in the mail.

I just tested both speakers together and now have discovered that the other 6 has almost no bass- the woofer is working and pushing midrange but there is no low end.

What could be the culprit here? I put mortite around the speakers when they went in so there shouldn't be any big holes. Could I have a problem/short in the crossover? Maybe a solder joint broke? If that were the case wouldn't there be no sound getting to the woofer? I don't really want to pull these back apart but if I have to I will - too far in to give up at this point....

Thanks!

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I did - didn't have a chance to pack/mail the tweeter on Saturday - we'll get it on its way sometime this coming week; sorry!

mhardy6647

1) Glad to hear it survived!

2) Dang, I don't have a spare woofer! ;-)

Cloth surround woofer, yes?
My first guess would be that the surround is "leaky"; do a search at, e.g., www.audiokarma.org for sealing cloth surrounds and you can find information on this (I am not an expert).
The other possibility that leaps to mind is that the woofer works but its excursion is being limited by either voice coil deformation or foreign matter in the magnetic 'gap' between the VC, the magnet, and the pole piece. This latter phenomenon is known as "crap in the gap" :-)
Both are easy to test for. Gently push in on the offending driver's cone with fingertips. Do you feel resistance/roughness in the cone's movement, or is it smooth and unrestricted? Compare it to the good woofer to be sure. If it 'scratches' when it moves or doesn't move as freely as the good woofer, its voice coil is probably dragging and a new woofer or a rebuild is indicated.

gmjungbluth

I pushed in on both woofers - both move in and out the same amount and with the same resistance - there doesn't seem to be any scratching in the 'bad' woofer. I am leery of re-doping the surrounds until I isolate this as the problem - I've read on Audiokarma that it seems that re-doping can alter the bass response of the speaker. As it is these really bump, at least one does. I don't seem to remember this being a problem before I recapped the speakers, which leads me to believe that there could be a bad join somewhere in the crossover. Could that be the issue? There is some sound coming through the woofer - if one of the caps wasn't joined correctly could that happen?

mhardy6647

Yes it is certainly, definitely possible that something in the crossover is passing some juice, but not really working properly. You can mainline some signal into the questionable woofer and see if you get the volume back, or swap woofers in the speakers and see if the problem travels with the driver.

Do you own any clip leads? :-)

gmjungbluth

No clip leads - everything is soldered in. A lesson to learn here - measure twice cut once!

mhardy6647

:-)

In the vintage world, one's gotta stay flexible!
Stuff happens. Sometimes smoke and flames are involved.

gmjungbluth

So the saga continues....

The low bass in the woofer wasn't the speaker, at least as far as I could tell - looks like I have a low level on one side of my Pioneer SA-708 integrated amp. I'm playing with it now to figure out the levels.

I put some gentle classical music on today through the 6s and learned that one tweeter has a hiss/buzz - MHardy - it's the one from you, I'm afraid. I hadn't heard it before playing rock music - I guess the heavier stuff covers up the buzz. I made sure to try the speaker through both channels of the amp to make sure - the buzz is still there.

Any way that this buzz is coming through the crossover? Judging from the fragility of these tweeters my first assumption is that it's inside the tweeter. I guess I could limit these speakers to rock listening but they're so great otherwise I want them to be perfect....

mhardy6647

:-(

Dang, sorry about that.

I didn't test it extensively, just made sure it worked. Check for dust/crud in between the cone and the front screen, maybe?
PM me if you wish to renew/continue tweeter discussions!